Author Topic: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook  (Read 49802 times)

Offline Bastian

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The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Topic Start: November 11, 2011, 09:27:34 PM »
The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook by Bastian with PlzBreakMyCampaign's help

Note: If you can not reply to this thread, see the discussion thread.

                  You are this:

You are the Warlock, Artificer, Archivist, or Wizard. This makes you the party crafter. You want to make some weapons and armor, some wondrous items and some grafts - maybe more. We'll show you how to get the best bang for your buck.

I assume we know the Item Creation rules. If not here's a refresher:
Cost to Craft (gp) = Base Price / 2
Cost to Craft (xp) = Base Price / 25
Time to Craft (in days) = Market Price / 1,000

Furthermore, please note that as cost is a real world value, cost reductions are not added together but multiplied by the total, one after another so that two 25 percent reductions lead to a total reduction of 43.75 percent. PHB 304 is where that rule comes from.

Color Coded Rubric:
Its a trap. Don't bother.
The regular 'meh' stuff.
Its pretty good.
It really, really good. Get this.
Congratulations. You just made trying harder obsolete.

Thanks to:
(click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 01:21:18 AM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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The Money
« Reply #1: November 11, 2011, 09:27:50 PM »
What Matters Most, The Money

General Cost in Gold Pieces
ReducerReduced to
Crafting it yourself instead of buying it. (DMG)50%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill. (DMG) 90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment.  (DMG) 70%
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat  (DMG II 177)90%
Extraordinary Artisan  feat  (ECS53)75%
Binding a Colossal Elemental (Preferably a whale with the Elemental Creature template) to it. (ECS+MoE+MotP191+srd)80%
Magical Artisan applied to an item creation feat, Bind Elemental or the Eberron cost reduction feats are best (PGF141)*75%
The discount Kaorti get (Adds 13% of the gp value to xp cost, so this should be applied last) (FF 108 + web)     35%
Membership in one of several guilds (see below)90%
Favored in Guild in an arcane guild (DMG II pg 227-8)95%

*As long as they are applied to various item creation feats that can work together (such as the Eberron cost reducers and Bind Elemental), the effects of multiple takings of this feat can stack. This can happen as a result of the stacking rules not applying to feats.
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Specific Cost in Gold Pieces
Reducer (Source)CategoryReduced to
Landlord  (SBG)Stronghold 50% above set sum
Making stronghold yourself  (SBG)Stronghold70%
Stronghold is mobile + Nearby feature that makes attacking easier + Site under legal dispute/lawless area  + 7-48 miles from a small city (SBG)Stronghold(100-5-2-10-2)%
Unbound Scroll, prc (Dra) + Legacy Champion afterwards (WoL)Scrolls100% minus 5% per level
Gold Dwarf Dweomersmith feat (RoF)Weapons*95%
Shield Dwarf Warder feat (RoF)Shields and Armor*95%
Hammer of the Magesmith (A&EG 109)Weapons*95%
Blood Artisan (Dr 318)Creates rolled, Cursed Items     75%
Fey Cherry wood (Drag357 pg56)Items made w/ wood90%
Salamander Orchids (Drag357)Flaming/Flame Burst properties         -500gp
Weapon/Armor templates (DMGII)Specific Weapon/Armor properties90%
Portal Master (PGtF)Portals 50% (can't stack w/ Magical Artisan)
Scribing onto a Caster's Shield(Core)Scrolls of 3rd lvl spells or under~50% (with qualifiers, see item)
Having Divine Rank of 1+ and actually having the feats to make the itemsItems related to their portfolio50%

*These categories are broader than they first appear. Some items technically count as weapons even though you might not first think of them as such, for example any shield that can bash counts as a weapon. Also, depending on the leniency of the DM, anything that is built into a weapon, armor, or shield should also get the same discount (though it also counts for the maximum price of an item).
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Miscellaneous Cost Reducers

Non-Continuous Cost Reducers
Reducer (Source)                                           Category           Times Usable            Reduced to           
Artificer's Dump magical location (Dr350)General1/Month90%


Mundane Item Cost Reducers
Reducer (Source)Reduced to    Exploits
Blazing Forge planar touchstone(PlH 161)        50%"your cost for creating masterwork items is halved."
Crafting it yourself instead of buying it. (DMG)33.33...%
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat  (DMG II)90%


Affiliations Cost Reducers
You can only benefit from one affiliation at a time.

Reducer (Source)Reduced to    Minimum Affiliation Required
Darkspire College (PHBII p174)        90%21
The one and the five (PHBII p174)        90%21

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miscellaneous Item Enhancements that allow one to make items of equal power for a lower cost (or stronger items for the same cost)
BonusEffect
Words of Creation feat using Exalted Power words (BoED)+1 caster level to a good aligned item
Dark Speech feat (FC1)+1 caster level to a evil aligned item
Inspired Master (Drag 339)+1 caster level to any item you are currently using.
Enhance Item non-epic feat (ELH)Allows the use of your ability score instead of the minimum for save DCs
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 11:02:27 PM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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The Experience
« Reply #2: November 11, 2011, 09:28:01 PM »
General Cost in XP

Note if you use the Kaorti discount you need to add 13% of the gp value when it was applied to the xp needed to craft and that xp can not be reduced in anyway without reducing the amount of gp you are saving.

ReducerReduced to
Crafting it yourself compared to market price.  (DMG)4%
Favored in Guild + several Wizard's Circles in Sharn (CoT)90%
Legendary Artisan (ECS)75%
Magical Artisan (PGF)75%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific skill.  (DMG)90%
Item is restricted to being used by those of a specific class or alignment. (DMG)70%
This Obelisk80%
Demon Mastery and Extract Demonic Essence (10% chance of the item having a curse) (FC1)      50%
Specific rooms in the Tower of Life.90%
Focus Caster wiz/sorc ACF (Drag248 pg88)90%
Study the second chapter of the artifact the Nether Scrolls (LEoF)75%

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Specific Cost in XP
Reducer (Source)CategoryReduced to
Scribe cleric ACF (Drag353 pg89)                  Scrolls        75%
Fey Cherry wood (Drag257 pg56)Items made w/ wood         90%
Salamander Orchids (Drag357)Flaming/Flame Burst properties         -100XP
Focus Caster ACF (Drag348 pg88)                The masterwork item chosen as your focus item90%
Having Divine Rank of 1+ and actually having the feats to make the itemsItems related to their portfolio50%

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Affiliations Cost Reducers
You can only benefit from one affiliation at a time.

Reducer (Source)Reduced to    Minimum Affiliation Required
Witchwarden affiliation (Dr348 pg72)      90%??
The Golden Helm Guild (PHBII p174)      90%30

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Regenerating XP

There are a variety of ways to reduce xp but there is a non-super cheesy way to get a continuously regenerating xp supply. Ambrosia is a substance that can be used to replace 2 xp for crafting purposes per dose.  Distilled Joy is the spell that creates Ambrosia by using a person in continuous pleasure. The major downside to Distilled Joy is it has a casting time of 24 hours. The way to get around that is by using a Spell Clock that casts it once every 24 hours, a magic trap with the spell cast into it as a Spell Like Ability, such as by a Factotum, or using a Limited Wish. One way to keep the person in a state of continuous pleasure is by putting the nipple ring from BoVD that turns pain to pleasure on them then putting them near a symbol of pain. For maximum effect place the subject in overlapping Manifest Zones, one providing the timeless trait and the other providing the fastest flowing time trait you can find (in Eberron's case Dal Quor). These manifest zone are created through the psionic power Anchor Plane. To get a pool of people willing to act as xp batteries you simply need to use the feats Leadership, Extra Followers, and Assemble the Horde.

Limited Wish casting of Distilled Joy or Spell Clock (160k) to make Ambrosia - BoED
Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain (8k) - BoVD
Symbol of Pain (Wiz5, 1k) - SRD
Manifest Zone - ECS
Anchor Plane - FoE

Once completed, this makes the above section for lowering XP costs obsolete

Alternatively the "LE medicant scheme" works as well. Please note that my corrections are in italic (except for the added periods).
Step 1) Set up free hospitals.
Step 2) Extract liquid pain from people suffering diseases (they're acceptable targets).  Magic trap or spell turret or spell clock or something.
Step 3) Use some sort of magic trap of cure disease or something.
Step 4) Undercut all the good churches.
Step 5) Drive all other medical services out of business.  You are now necessary to society.


Another method that can be used is the Thought Bottle. It allows you to basically 'save' how much xp you have (minus the 500 xp cost for using the Thought Bottle like this) and then 'reload' to that amount at a later date. If done multiple times that 500 xp can add up so the number of times this is used to 'save' your xp should be minimized. One way to minimize the xp lost is to use two different thought bottles so you only lose 500 xp even after using the first thought bottle many times.

Another one:
Step 1: Get level drained. This sets your XP exactly halfway between your current (pre-drained) level and your last level.
(click to show/hide)
Step 2: Burn all of your available XP making stuff.
Step 3: Get a restoration cast on you, removing the negative level and resetting your XP to the minimum for your original level.

Repeat as necessary. This does cost you 100gp per casting, but that's a pittance compared to what you'll be saving by making all of your own gear.

Alternatively to these options, automatically-resetting Magical Traps or Spell Turrets can enable several joy inducing spells, like Good Hope or Elation to be cast repeatedly, thereby enabling the other Ambrosia traps to continuously produce their extract.  Further, people would want to go into these devices, especially if you stack several pleasure-inducing spells into them.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 03:32:19 PM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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The Time
« Reply #3: November 11, 2011, 09:28:40 PM »
General Cost in Time
ReducerReduced to
Dedicated Wright crafting for you.  (ECS) Other
A manifest zone of a plane with faster flowing time than the Material PlaneVariable
Magical Artisan(PGF) applied to Exceptional Artisan75%
Exceptional Artisan (ECS)75%
Quick Crafting (Maester 1, CAdv, unavailable to Artificers and non-gnomes)    50%
Research Aid spell (drag342 pg55)50%
Efficient Item Creation epic feat(ELH) applied to Exceptional Artisan10%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Specific Cost in Time
Reducer (Source)CategoryReduction to
Gremma's Cauldron    (EtUM)Potions 50%
Quick Potion spell  (SpC)Potions 0% but potion lasts hour/level
Quill of Scribing crafting for you. (CM)     Scroll Other
Construct Lab (Dr355)Construct    90%
Arcane Distillery (Dr355)Potions90%
The Autoscribe crafting it for you. ScrollsOther (multiplies xp cost by 2 or 4)
Having Divine Rank of 1+ and actually having the feats to make the itemsItems related to their portfolio50%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A dedicated wright and a quill of scribing makes the time for creating items mostly useless - unless you need them to work faster. Just take an hour to set up the wright and a standard action for the quill and they will craft for you. A dedicated wright is available to do your crafting by 3rd level, using WBL [2.1k, 160xp, craft (pottery) DC14]. Other information is that the wright knows what you know and is telepathically linked within 1500'.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 03:33:31 PM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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Requirements
« Reply #4: November 11, 2011, 09:28:51 PM »
Crafting Feats:

Feat Name                                     Source         Prerequisite
Advanced BindingDrag 327Craft Construct, CL 10th
Attune magic weaponECS 50Craft Magic Arms and Armor, caster level 5th
Bind ElementalECS 51Craft Wondrous Item, caster level 9th
Craft Aboleth GlyphLoM 22Aboleth, caster level 5th
Craft Alchemical ItemUA 99Craft (alchemy) 4 ranks
Craft Cognizance CrystalXPH 44Manifester level 3rd
Craft ConstructMM4 202Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous item
Craft Contingent SpellCAr 77Caster level 11th
Craft Crystal WeaponOA 61Caster level 7+, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft (weaponsmithing) 4
Craft DorjeXPH 44Manifester level 5th
Craft DrilbuWebManifester level 5th
Craft Magic Arms and ArmorPH 92Caster level 5th
Craft PsicrownXPH 44Manifester level 12th
Craft Psionic Arms and ArmorXPH 44Manifester level 5th
Craft Psionic ConstructXPH 45Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, Craft Universal Item
Craft Psionic SealLoM 69Int 15, psionic ability (spell-like abilities described as psionics, psi-like abilities, or psionic powers), caster level or manifester level 7th.
Craft RodPH 92Spellcaster level 9th+
Craft Rune CircleRS 137Caster level 5th
Craft ScepterLE 8Knowledge (history) 4 ranks, caster level 9th
Craft Skull TalismanFr 47Caster level 6th
Craft StaffPH 92Spellcaster level 12th+
Craft TalismanOA 6Intelligence 13+, appropriate Craft skill, spellcaster level 1+
Craft Universal ItemXPH 45Manifester level 3rd
Craft WandPH 92Spellcaster level 5th+
Craft Wondrous ItemPH 92Spellcaster level 3rd+
Create Moving PortalWebCreate Portal
Create PortalFRCS 34Craft Wondrous item
Deathless GrafterMoE 46specific region elf, caster level 5, knowledge (religion)2
Eldeen PlantgrafterMoE 47caster level 5, knowledge (nature) 4
Graft FleshFF 207 + LoM 216       Must be the specified race except for undead, Slithar, and beholder grafts.
Graft Illithid FleshUnd 25illithid (racially emulatable), heal 10
Graft Yuan-Ti FleshSK 146Yuan-Ti (racially emulatable), heal 10
Grell alchemyLOM 114Int 13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 3 ranks, caster level 1st
Improved Flight Item*Sh 157Craft Wondrous Item, Knowledge (the planes) 6 ranks
Sanctify RelicMIC 222Any other item creation feat.
Tattoo MagicLD 189-190Craft (calligraphy) or Craft (painting) skill, spellcaster level 3rd+
WyrmgrafterRotD 101heal 10, knowledge (arcana)

*That one is strange because it gives a bonus feat to constructs crafted that can fly, or gives them a fly speed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Silver Marshes (Page 62) has a wizard college you can get into for 1,000gp.  You may craft items without crafting feats if you pay the school 10% of the items market price.  Paying 60% instead of 50% when crafting, is a fair trade off if you have no feats to spare. Its cheaper to do this many times with Extraordinary Artisan than to take only Craft Wonderous Item.

Midguard dwarves (Frostburn 124) are outsiders with Craft ring, wonderous item, and arms and armor as bonus EX feats.  They also have the EX ability that they count as having all the pre-req's to craft any of these items, meaning you don't have to waste the spells. This allows you to craft without outside spell help while not a caster or warlock.

If you need to rapidly change item creation feats, there is an online vestige for this. This is suboptimal to every class except binders.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effective Crafter Level Requirements
BonusEffect
Flame of the Forge Sovereign Archetype (DoE)+2 Caster level for crafting
Artificer 1 (ECS)+2 Caster level for crafting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that an artificer cannot use caster level boosting items "for (the) purposes of meeting item prerequisites" since for that purpose an artificer doesn't have a caster level, they only have an "effective caster level." They can, however, use caster level boosting items to enhance their ability to use infusions.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 02:38:49 PM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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These are the things that need to be further integrated into the Handbook:
And retraining.  A 100 (50 X 2, there and back) GP retrain can save you thousands.  It's a day trip for your dedicated wright will finish it for you.
There's a section in Book of Vile Darkness (pages 26-28) for ritual sacrifice which allows you to make a Knowledge (Religion) check once per day to gain a reward, two of which (among other things) are Dark Craft experience points and Dark Craft gold, which you can use for item creation costs. Dependant on your Knowledge (Religion) check.

I'm currently making an evil wizard to abuse this prospect. :evillaugh The peasants fuel my magical items!
Note FC1 has a creature, which can be summoned with Greater Planar Binding, that explicitly gives out 3 free Fiendish Grafts per day instantly... and is evidently quite happy to do so.  Might be worth mentioning.  Suddenly otherwise useless (due to cost) grafts like the Charming Eye and Fearsome Eye become very worthwhile indeed.

JaronK
Note the above post is referring to Sibriexes.
The most broken, at least for non psionics, is clearly Morphing.  That enchantment lets you switch the Shuriken into any other similar weapon (here meaning a light weapon of the appropriate size).  Basically, it turns into a +1 enchantment that reduces all enchanting and materials cost for a weapon to 1/50th normal.  A pair of Feycraft Life Drinker Lifestealing Keen Aptitude +5 Morphing Abyssal Bloodiron Kukris for around 8kgp?  Sure, go nuts.  And people thought TWF had problems with weapon cost.  Or just make a bunch of +5 Morphing Keen Returning Shuriken of Distance, turn them into daggers, and don't worry about wealth at all as a Master Thrower.

JaronK
Referring to the Rod of Excellent Magic.
Quote from: The_Mad_Linguist
Quote
If casting the spell would reduce the casterís XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself.

Since you have the rod, casting the spell would not reduce your XP total.

Quote from: Note to self: Things to add
Link to this thread

Link to and explain the trick of  this thread

Mythallar -minor artifact from LEoF that allows creation of items w/o XP that only work inside the Mythallar

Note that TC X0 Lt 0X needs to be credited for pointing this out and Mooncrow for giving the quote.
"Master Scribe(ex): When you use Scribe Scroll, reduce the gp and XP costs by 5% for each level in this class.  These bonuses stack with those of Legendary Artisan and Extraordinary Artisan, so that a 5th level Unbound Scroll with the Legendary Artisan feat reduces the XP cost of scroll creation by 50%." 

in explorer's handbook, there is a handy prestige class called a "cataclysm mage". about p58, iirc.... notable that one of the class features allows you to add a small list of weapon and armor enhancements for zero xp cost, whenever you happen to be crafting arms or armor. still have to pay the materials cost, however. nonetheless, no xp cost is quite nice.

Grab a non-binding Faustian pact to give you 235.794769% of your current wealth (use nine of the +10% option and gain them one at a time).

From a discussion about whether cost reducers reduce the cost of expensive material components:
Dug up the rest of the specific cost reducers:

Templates (DMGII): explicitly do not reduce component costs.
Portal Master: 50% "normal cost" but does not stack with magical artisan.
The Caster Shield is only for raw materials and is another instance where that term is differentiated from material components.
Blood Artisan: 75% "normal cost" for Magic Arms and Armor as well as Wondrous Items, but all items you create have a randomly determined curse.

Fey Cherry wood's phrasing was somewhat ambiguous:
Quote from: Dragon Magazine 357
... items made from fey cherry wood cost 10% less gp and XP to enhance magically.
(Also Bastian, you have the Dragon Mag number as 257 in your guide.)

Unbound Scroll has almost identical phrasing, followed by mentioning that this discount stacks with that of Extraordinary Artisan which does not discount material component costs.

Tangentially related would be that different item types require different amounts of material components for crafting.  Wands and Staves of course require 50 times the amount it would cost to cast the pertinent spell once.  Weapons, Rods, and Wondrous Items do not require material components at all for their crafting processes.  Potions will only require enough for one casting.  Armor and scrolls have me a bit hung up though: either they only need enough of the appropriate component for one casting, or they need enough components to cast the spell each day of crafting and I'm not sure which it is.

EDIT: Oh, and I get that it's there for thoroughness, but is it even possible to get Divine Rank as a PC?  It has a similar "the cost" wording to fey cherry wood and unbound scroll but I somehow don't think it much matters...

Found something new in the good-old DMG:

Quote from: DMG pg 166, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Karasuthra Hunter’s Glen
Among the most famous game in the place are the white stags. These elusive creatures (treat as celestial chargers; see page 250 of the Monster Manual) live for the thrill of the chase and consider the hunt part of their life cycle. Even the most devoted defender of good can hunt a white stag, for the stag knows the consequences and is willing to be prey. But white stags donít give themselves up. They take great glee in using their wiles and unparalleled knowledge of the forest to confound hunters from other planes. No creatures native to the Beastlands will attack a white stag. Instead, they turn on the hunters with unbridled ferocity.

The antlers of a white stag stretch wide enough that itís possible to fashion a composite longbow out of them using the Craft (bow-making) skill (making checks against DC 30). Such a bow is considered of masterwork quality, and magical enhancements placed on the bow cost 10% less because the antlers have an affinity for magic.

A 10% discount on bow enhancements? I'll take it!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 01:20:22 AM by Bastian »

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Reply #6: November 11, 2011, 09:29:45 PM »
done

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Reply #7: November 18, 2011, 07:34:08 PM »
Hey bastion. I haven't been haunting this thread in far too long. From my notes using this a few days ago:

its Bind Elemental (not elemental binding) ECS54
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat is DMGII177
Magical Artisan is PFtF41
Extraordinary Artisan is ECS53
Hammer of the magesmith is AEG109 45,912gp
college affiliation is 172 generally bad (12 while vulnerable for a month and 5% chance EL12 attack a month)
dark one affiliation is 176 (doable from level 1 with enough missions)

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Reply #8: November 21, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »
Hey bastion. I haven't been haunting this thread in far too long. From my notes using this a few days ago:

its Bind Elemental (not elemental binding) ECS54
Apprentice (Craftsman) feat is DMGII177
Magical Artisan is PFtF41
Extraordinary Artisan is ECS53
Hammer of the magesmith is AEG109
Added info. Thanks.
Quote
Hammer of the magesmith is AEG109 45,912gp
college affiliation is 172 generally bad (12 while vulnerable for a month and 5% chance EL12 attack a month)
dark one affiliation is 176 (doable from level 1 with enough missions)
So do you think I should put those two affiliations in red?

Also since the price of the hammer is a one time thing I'm not sure I should add it. Thoughts?

Edit: Added some of the small things from the To Be Added section. I will be adding some of the harder to add things later.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 08:55:55 PM by Bastian »

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Reply #9: December 09, 2011, 12:15:05 AM »
Attention Handbook Writers! If you wish to openly discuss your handbook in an easily-accessible location, please start a thread in this section (Do not do so in the Handbooks section), and then reply to this thread. Doing so is not required, but handbooks exist for the purpose of compiling useful information regarding the 3.X system. Such handbooks would do well to have a discussion thread.
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Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook
« Reply #10: April 20, 2012, 03:14:11 PM »
I've just made a few minor changes to the handbook in response to comments in the discussion thread. I'm also integrating some things into the handbook that should have been integrated a while ago. I just wanted to assure people this handbook is not abandoned, I've just been busy working on the Pun-pun handbook and doing non-DnD related things for the last few months.