Author Topic: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,  (Read 847 times)

Offline Hyperman012

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[PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Topic Start: July 18, 2013, 05:02:46 AM »
Hello everyone at Min/max.

I am getting ready to enter the Crypt of the Everflame.  I've played 2 3.5 campaigns, and nothng else. So I get the basic's on creating a character, but I'm new to Pathfinder.

The party consists of 3 people and DM. We have a rogue (human) and a cleric (Human), and me. I'm wanting to do a sorcerer and have read a bunch of material on it. I have questions and just need general advice.

We start we set rolls : 16, 14, 14, 14, 12, 10. and Average Gold(70 for sorcerer). The level 1 hp is MAX so that helps.  I think I want to do human with favoring the sorcerer as a class so I can get extra spells known, cause this seems to be the weakest part about a sorcerer. I've read one guide on the type of spells but I think I'm lucky. The DM has said I can pull any spells from 3.5 (with his approval) so That may change things. as I'm not too familiar with some of the other books in 3.5 (Complete Arcane comes to mind).

I would love to get into optimizing and min/maxing this character, as this module will get us to level 4, and then we will do another module together.

The parts I'm stuck with:
1. Traits:
            I like the sound of Rich Parents for 900 gold, but I don't know what i would spend it on at level 1. I have read Reactionary (+2 initative) is a solid choice. Other choices I heard are Magical Lineage and Magical Talent. I'm not sure which is better, or really how they are different..  Need some suggestions on what I should be doing here.
2. Feats:
           I think i have gotten the best available feats picked out just don't know the best optimal order to get them. I'm mostly looking at Improved Initiative, Toughness, Bouncing Spell, Dazing Spell, Extend Spell. If I should be looking at others please feel free to give advice here.
3. Bloodline:
           I feel like out of all the reading I've done, Arcane bloodline seems the only viable option, which is ok.. Is there really any other viable options. The only bloodline that looks interesting from a roleplaying, possible optimization fun is the Martyred Bloodline, to be more like a blood mage.
           If I do Arcane Bond as the blood line, I know familiar is the best choice, but what to get at level 1 or where to find my options at?

So Here's how I've set up the character

12 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 14 int, 10 wis, 18 (16+2) cha.

For level 0 spells, So far I've chosen Prestidigitation, Light, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Daze, Disrupt Undead. I chose Disrupt Undead since looking into the module seems there will be some undead in there.
Level 1 spells, I'm thinking I want to start with Color Spray and Summon Monster I

Thanks for any help you guy's give on finishing up this character.


Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #1: July 18, 2013, 02:45:18 PM »
Go Half-Elf or take Racial Heritage (Half-Elf) feat. Counting as a Half-Elf is necessary to obtain and use Paragon Surge. Paragon Surge lets you take Expanded Arcana whenever you need a spell.

Traits: Magical Talent is very weak for a Sorcerer. The main use of Magical Talent is to obtain an SLA so you have a caster level for feats and stuff as a non-caster. Two World Magic is much better if you want to cast another class's cantrip or orison, but unless you have anything special in mind, that's still probably not worth taking.

Magical Lineage (and Wayang Spellhunter) are strong traits if you have a specific spell in mind, but otherwise I wouldn't get them just yet. To be honest, I'd probably leave open the Magic and Regional trait slots so that I could Paragon Surge into Additional Traits and spontaneously lower metamagic costs as needed. The thing is, most metamagic feats are better as metamagic rods.

Reactionary is always a good trait, so go for it.

I'm not so sure about taking Improved Initiative. Noble Scion of War feat (only available on level 1) will let you use Charisma for your initiative roll, so eventually it will be better than Improved Initiative (right now you would get +2 from dex or +4 from cha with this feat, so it's a +2 bonus at level 1 for your char).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 11:26:22 PM by Power »

Offline PsyBomb

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #2: July 18, 2013, 03:37:32 PM »
How long do you expect this game to go? Rich Parents is not a very good way to go unless the game will end fast. The trait is basically wasted once party wealth actually gets to level 2 or 3. Since you're expecting to go to 4+, look elsewhere.

For spell selection, Summon Monster 1 is no good at level one (though it becomes decent at 2 and good at 3), and Color Spray is one which you will retrain out of at first opportunity (though it's useful for now). Unless the Cleric is one of a war god, you'll need some straight damage that does NOT involve walking up to the thing with rotting claws and touching it. Acid Splash as one of your 0th level spells, at least.

Power's suggestion is cheesy but real, and brutally powerful once you hit level 6. If the game will go that long, forget needing the Human bonus spells, since Paragon Surge into Expanded Arcana lets you name a spell known for the duration.

For feats, you shouldn't need Toughness. Improved Initiative is always nice, but Metamagic is worthless until you have 2nd level slots, which means avoid them until 4th level (MAYBE 3rd if you're willing to have the dead slot for a while).

Offline Hyperman012

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #3: July 18, 2013, 04:27:53 PM »
How long do you expect this game to go? Rich Parents is not a very good way to go unless the game will end fast. The trait is basically wasted once party wealth actually gets to level 2 or 3. Since you're expecting to go to 4+, look elsewhere.
This modular goes to 4, and if the party enjoys it, we will do more, and as long as we can go. Thank you. I won't get Rich Parents.

For spell selection, Summon Monster 1 is no good at level one (though it becomes decent at 2 and good at 3), and Color Spray is one which you will retrain out of at first opportunity (though it's useful for now). Unless the Cleric is one of a war god, you'll need some straight damage that does NOT involve walking up to the thing with rotting claws and touching it. Acid Splash as one of your 0th level spells, at least.
Yea i was looking at that. So Mage Armor for level 1? Color Spray/Mage Armor would be my 2 spells?

Power's suggestion is cheesy but real, and brutally powerful once you hit level 6. If the game will go that long, forget needing the Human bonus spells, since Paragon Surge into Expanded Arcana lets you name a spell known for the duration....
I'm not sure how cheesy I want to be but I have questions around this stuff. Will Post with quotes from Power's

Offline Hyperman012

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #4: July 18, 2013, 04:37:09 PM »
Go Half-Elf or take Racial Heritage (Half-Elf) feat. Counting as a Half-Elf is necessary to obtain and use Paragon Surge. Paragon Surge lets you take Expanded Arcana whenever you need a spell.

So Paragon surge is a level 3 spell? So I won't get it till 6th level right?(when i gain access to level 3 spells), So I cast it and I pick a feat of my choice, in your example I can do Expanded Arcana  or Additional Traits to pick up trait or spell as needed? I want to make sure i'm reading this right. Thanks for the clarification

Traits: Magical Talent is very weak for a Sorcerer. The main use of Magical Talent is to obtain an SLA so you have a caster level for feats and stuff as a non-caster. Two World Magic is much better if you want to cast another class's cantrip or orison, but unless you have anything special in mind, that's still probably not worth taking. The thing is, most metamagic feats are better as metamagic rods.
  What do you think of the trait magical knack?  If I pick two world magic, what 0 level spell would be best? from other spell lists?

Magical Lineage (and Wayang Spellhunter) are strong traits if you have a specific spell in mind, but otherwise I wouldn't get them just yet. To be honest, I'd probably leave open the Magic and Regional trait slots so that I could Paragon Surge into Additional Traits and spontaneously lower metamagic costs as needed.

Reactionary is always a good trait, so go for it.
Ok  so My 2 best traits are two world and reactionary?

I'm not so sure about taking Improved Initiative. Noble Scion of War feat (only available on level 1) will let you use Charisma for your initiative roll, so eventually it will be better than Improved Initiative (right now you would get +2 from dex or +4 from cha with this feat, so it's a +2 bonus at level 1 for your char).
With half elf i would still chose the +2 to cha to get the 18 score and the +4 right?

One more question: What would you guys feel is the best familar to take for arcane bond? I'm thinking Dodo for the +4 initiative bonus.

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #5: July 18, 2013, 11:25:21 PM »
Go Half-Elf or take Racial Heritage (Half-Elf) feat. Counting as a Half-Elf is necessary to obtain and use Paragon Surge. Paragon Surge lets you take Expanded Arcana whenever you need a spell.

So Paragon surge is a level 3 spell? So I won't get it till 6th level right?(when i gain access to level 3 spells), So I cast it and I pick a feat of my choice, in your example I can do Expanded Arcana  or Additional Traits to pick up trait or spell as needed? I want to make sure i'm reading this right. Thanks for the clarification
That is correct. Once you cast it, you can temporarily obtain any feat if you have the prerequisites. In this case we are using it to give ourselves access to any arbitrary spell on the class list through Expanded Arcana. It's one of the most powerful spells in the game.

Traits: Magical Talent is very weak for a Sorcerer. The main use of Magical Talent is to obtain an SLA so you have a caster level for feats and stuff as a non-caster. Two World Magic is much better if you want to cast another class's cantrip or orison, but unless you have anything special in mind, that's still probably not worth taking.
  What do you think of the trait magical knack?
Magical Knack cannot exceed your hit dice, so it's only good if you are multiclassing or picking prestige classes that lose spellcaster levels, and the general rule is to never lose spellcaster levels unless there is a really strong payoff for it. If you are planning on obtaining the Pathfinder Savant and/or Daivrat prestige classes, it's worth grabbing Magical Knack. Otherwise, I'd rather use the Adopted social trait for Strength of the Land which is pretty much a +1 caster level at all times. Touching the ground isn't exactly hard, and if you tape some random pebbles to yourself, you more or less have +1 CL at all times.

If I pick two world magic, what 0 level spell would be best? from other spell lists?
There are a couple of candidates:
  • Unwitting Ally (Bard only): Treat an enemy as your ally instead for the purpose of flanking (and only flanking) for 1 round. Lets you burn standard actions to give your allies flanking and/or disrupt your enemies' flanking. Your rogue would like this.
  • Guidance: Every skill out-of-combat skill check that takes less than 1 minute is done at a +1 competence bonus, and it could be used in combat.
  • Create Water: Create 2 gallons per CL that last 24 hours. Cast it nonstop and you can make 20 gallons per minute per CL or 1200 gallons per hour per CL. After a while you can just drown people, dungeons, villages, etc. with it.
Bear in mind your party cleric can already cast the last two, so guidance is a wasted pick.

Magical Lineage (and Wayang Spellhunter) are strong traits if you have a specific spell in mind, but otherwise I wouldn't get them just yet. To be honest, I'd probably leave open the Magic and Regional trait slots so that I could Paragon Surge into Additional Traits and spontaneously lower metamagic costs as needed.  The thing is, most metamagic feats are better as metamagic rods.

Reactionary is always a good trait, so go for it.
Ok  so My 2 best traits are two world and reactionary?
No, I don't really recommend Two World Magic. I'd rather use Adopted (Social) to grab Strength of the Land (Magic). Resilient (Combat)/Forlorn (Elf, Race)/Survivalist (Regional)/Life of Toil (Social) will also give you a permanent +1 trait bonus to your fortitude save. Frankly, I'd probably get a Drawback for a 3rd trait, then take all three: Reactionary, Adopted->Strength of the Land (or Magical Knack if using one of the two prestige classes I mentioned above), Forlorn (if half-elf)/Survivalist.

I'm not so sure about taking Improved Initiative. Noble Scion of War feat (only available on level 1) will let you use Charisma for your initiative roll, so eventually it will be better than Improved Initiative (right now you would get +2 from dex or +4 from cha with this feat, so it's a +2 bonus at level 1 for your char).
With half elf i would still chose the +2 to cha to get the 18 score and the +4 right?
Aye. You can also do that as a Half-Orc, for that matter.

One more question: What would you guys feel is the best familar to take for arcane bond? I'm thinking Dodo for the +4 initiative bonus.
Not sure.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 03:52:10 PM by Power »

Offline Hyperman012

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #6: July 19, 2013, 07:23:10 AM »
Magical Lineage (and Wayang Spellhunter) are strong traits if you have a specific spell in mind, but otherwise I wouldn't get them just yet. To be honest, I'd probably leave open the Magic and Regional trait slots so that I could Paragon Surge into Additional Traits and spontaneously lower metamagic costs as needed.  The thing is, most metamagic feats are better as metamagic rods.

Reactionary is always a good trait, so go for it.
Ok  so My 2 best traits are two world and reactionary?
No, I don't really recommend Two World Magic. I'd rather use Adopted (Social) to grab Strength of the Land (Magic). Resilient (Combat)/Forlorn (Elf, Race)/Survivalist (Regional)/Life of Toil (Social) will also give you a permanent +1 trait bonus to your fortitude save. Frankly, I'd probably get a Drawback for a 3rd trait, then take all three: Reactionary, Adopted->Strength of the Land (or Magical Knack if using one of the two prestige classes I mentioned above), Forlorn (if half-elf)/Survivalist.

I really like Uniwitting Ally, So i'm going to take two world magic. It may not be the most optimal but I don't want to out optimize the rest of the group. It gives me nice utility for the rogue.

Thanks for all the Help.

For the familiar, I took the scorpion, greensting. with the +4 initiative to me, and the +15 stealth. +7 to climb I can use it to scout fairly well.

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Sorcerer, Need Help! Kinda noob,
« Reply #7: July 19, 2013, 09:13:43 AM »
There is something else I should throw out on the topic of familiars: There are Familiar Archetypes, so take a look at those.