Poll

Are Astral Constructs too strong in combat? Particularly in regards to how Astral Constructs compare to other non-casting classes at that level.

Mostly not strong enough.
Mostly Balanced.
Mostly Too strong.

Author Topic: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)  (Read 1119 times)

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Topic Start: November 28, 2011, 02:56:05 PM »
(You can also add some comments on what you would change in order to make them work better in regards to the other classes)

Offline archangel.arcanis

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #1: November 28, 2011, 02:59:13 PM »
I find the constructs themselves to be a bit weaker than what you would typically summon using spells but the ability to customize them to the situation helps balance it out. The only menu choices that seem like an issue are those granting @will powers, and even then it shouldn't be too big of an issue.

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #2: November 28, 2011, 03:11:46 PM »
I find the constructs themselves to be a bit weaker than what you would typically summon using spells but the ability to customize them to the situation helps balance it out. The only menu choices that seem like an issue are those granting @will powers, and even then it shouldn't be too big of an issue.
Which summoning spells are you referring to? The Summon Monster line? 

Offline archangel.arcanis

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #3: November 28, 2011, 03:14:16 PM »
I find the constructs themselves to be a bit weaker than what you would typically summon using spells but the ability to customize them to the situation helps balance it out. The only menu choices that seem like an issue are those granting @will powers, and even then it shouldn't be too big of an issue.
Which summoning spells are you referring to? The Summon Monster line?
Yes summon monster and summon nature's ally. Early on SNA has the better choices and later SM does. Over all I find that AC is useful at all levels but not overpowering at any. I would frequently use it in game with a slow recharge trick to have a trap springer as well as a utility character (such as wings to fly us over a pit).

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #4: November 29, 2011, 10:32:04 AM »
The constructs on their own aren't so bad(mindless meat walls), but some of the menu options, specifically the power replicating ones, tend towards the strong side.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #5: November 29, 2011, 12:06:37 PM »
Thing is, any psionic character can easily pimp his ML to get higher level ACs than he's suposed to get, while casters are stuck with level-apropriate summons.

Offline archangel.arcanis

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #6: November 29, 2011, 12:09:44 PM »
Thing is, any psionic character can easily pimp his ML to get higher level ACs than he's suposed to get, while casters are stuck with level-apropriate summons.
really? there are only about 2-3 ways I can think of that would let you go beyond your HD and those have an actual cost. Unlike say spellcasters who have tons of tricks to gain spell slots early, though not always the spells.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #7: December 20, 2011, 01:40:09 PM »
Thing is, any psionic character can easily pimp his ML to get higher level ACs than he's suposed to get, while casters are stuck with level-apropriate summons.
Oh? Ring of the Beast anyone? Greenbound Summons?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #8: December 20, 2011, 02:08:59 PM »
Thing is, any psionic character can easily pimp his ML to get higher level ACs than he's suposed to get, while casters are stuck with level-apropriate summons.
Oh? Ring of the Beast anyone? Greenbound Summons?

Druids geting nice things, not anyone else gets SNA to benefit from those.

Plus those things only work for SNA, not even SM. ML pimping boosts all psionic powers, making it a much more common investment.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #9: December 20, 2011, 05:23:41 PM »
This assumes the RAW nerfs right?
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Offline Tiltowait

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #10: December 21, 2011, 11:24:14 AM »
I am having a hard time seeing how an Astral Construct would outperform any decent character. Even taking advantage of the tricks to get higher level summons than normal and with more abilities, they still are not that impressive. Any character that is being outdone by one of those has far worse problems.

ACs are there to take up space on the grid and use special abilities. Their damage isn't significant enough to make any difference.

Offline archangel.arcanis

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #11: December 21, 2011, 11:34:01 AM »
Thing is, any psionic character can easily pimp his ML to get higher level ACs than he's suposed to get, while casters are stuck with level-apropriate summons.
Oh? Ring of the Beast anyone? Greenbound Summons?

Druids geting nice things, not anyone else gets SNA to benefit from those.

Plus those things only work for SNA, not even SM. ML pimping boosts all psionic powers, making it a much more common investment.
You are apparently forgetting that both Spirit Shamans and Archivists have access to the entire druid list too. Neither is quite up to the insanity of a druid, but archivist is close.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #12: December 22, 2011, 12:53:08 PM »
PLZ brings up a good point.
Supposing magic had the same restriction = back to nuts and bolts discussion.


4e took a different tact.
Making the various "summons" into a 1 HP construct-ish thingy,
gives a comparatively simple math fix.

Just straight nerfing 3e summons to have that same kind of 1hp,
would require be-balancing the relative power of summons to encounters.
So I don't think 3e would work very well going this way.
Even though I like it 4e style.


Erudite with magic mantle and whatever Discipline option,
"ought" to be able to yank all the magic goodies over to the Psi side.
That would be the best summoner ... on round 2 and thereafter.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:55:20 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Re: Astral Construct (Too Strong or Just Right?)
« Reply #13: December 23, 2011, 01:05:21 AM »
I wonder if it might help if it takes a move action to give new orders to the construct(s). If theres multiple you can mass command them under the same orders, etc.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.