Author Topic: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"  (Read 803 times)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1721
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
  • Respect: +28
    • View Profile
Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Topic Start: November 01, 2016, 10:02:28 PM »
I saw this thread and thought, "Hmm, I wonder if there are more shortcomings." Then I wondered if I had already fixed everything mentioned.

(click to show/hide)

What other shortcomings haven't been mentioned?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7006
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Reply #1: November 02, 2016, 05:23:43 PM »
"Few rules for social interaction: is that a bad thing? Do we really want more niche rules?"
5e is claiming this is supposed to be 1/3rd of the whole game.
5e is also claiming Exploring is another 1/3rd of the game.


5 minute workday

Farmville , also known as Down Time

Mafia Wars , more precise than 2e Factions

Interparty Dynamics , tv shows have massive  interpersonal stuff as the real story lines, even if the official Show is sci-fi or fantasy or soaps or military or whatever.
12000 posts , can be Rwong

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1721
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
  • Respect: +28
    • View Profile
Re: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Reply #2: December 12, 2016, 10:51:08 PM »
"Few rules for social interaction: is that a bad thing? Do we really want more niche rules?"
5e is claiming this is supposed to be 1/3rd of the whole game.
5e is also claiming Exploring is another 1/3rd of the game.


5 minute workday

Farmville , also known as Down Time

Mafia Wars , more precise than 2e Factions

Interparty Dynamics , tv shows have massive  interpersonal stuff as the real story lines, even if the official Show is sci-fi or fantasy or soaps or military or whatever.
Yeah pretty much all of the extra bluff ish or intimidate ish or haggle ish rules are generally ignored by DMs. Just like other fringe rules for boat vs boat warfare, etc

5 minute workday is something that I hint at how to help take care of, but it is pretty much a part of the system. The only way to make it not noticable is if all those x/day abilities because x/week or otherwise used a different cooldown mechanic.

Are you saying there's too little to do during downtime?

Yeah a lot of the campaign setting books had silly organizations that were supposed to be what everyone wanted to read about

You're right that the party dynamics aren't very spelled out: gentlemen's agreement, pvp allowances, etc

Offline Solo

  • Designer/Editor, Legend
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1705
  • Sorcelator Supreme
  • Respect: +127
    • View Profile
    • Solo's Compiled Works
Re: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Reply #3: December 13, 2016, 03:03:53 AM »
"Few rules for social interaction: is that a bad thing? Do we really want more niche rules?"

For the sake of sanity, let's restrict the list to things that the game is supposed to do, but doesn't.
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7006
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
  • Respect: +68
    • View Profile
Re: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Reply #4: December 14, 2016, 05:44:21 PM »
How 'bout this one from Sunic Flames circa '11 ?
Quote from: Sunic Flames
You do not get XP for running away. Regardless of whether you can or not. And without Dimension Door or better, you can't. Even then it's not assured, but at least is something. You do get XP for overcoming challenges. That does include not getting into the fight in the first place, provided that the goal is to get to x, and the fight is just in the way. Of course you do miss out on loot this way, and this breaks in a very obvious way with scry and fry. However people don't run away because of thoughts of XP, they don't run away because it doesn't work. And the encounter will still be there if you run from it, so you will still need to do something other than run from it to win against it.

Changing XP based on encounter circumstance is complete and utter fail. It leads to Paizil style "Powered by your Failure" in which you deliberately fuck up to get more XP. Rather, getting a significant advantage on the enemy, or not by your actions is its own reward. As such, fighting the enemy in which they are fully buffed and jumping you, fighting the enemy where neither of you has the advantage, or fighting the enemy in which you are fully buffed and jumping them all give the same XP. Just your actions make it significantly easier or harder to get that XP. Obviously, IP proofing demands you make situation 3, or failing this 2 the norm. And that means divinations, and other recon measures that actually work. No, scouting does not work. No, don't derail my thread bitching about it.

If it's happening on Paizo, it's happening elsewhere.
idk any of the details of this/these incidents


... Are you saying there's too little to do during downtime?

Idle hands is the *outsider's* workshop, yes?

Slay the dragon, go home, hire an untrained commoner for an hour or two, invent my kitty avatar ...  :tongue
12000 posts , can be Rwong

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1721
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
  • Respect: +28
    • View Profile
Re: Continued "Shortcomings of 3.5"
« Reply #5: March 22, 2017, 04:55:05 PM »
You do not get XP for running away. Regardless of whether you can or not.

However people don't run away because of thoughts of XP, they don't run away because it doesn't work. And the encounter will still be there if you run from it, so you will still need to do something other than run from it to win against it.
I'd like to disagree with SF here. Running away can be an objective, it's just rarely used. Basically it happens any time the enemy is hunting you instead of you hunting the enemy. It happens a lot in Russia, shall we say.

Generally players aren't okay with overwhelmingly powerful NPCs hunting them down because 99% of all DMs who do this aren't playing by the rules or doing it for reasons other than story or realism. Players who understand that a DM is not punishing them, and who enjoy different kinds of optimization challenges will be okay with achieving a goal of "outrun so and so." This of the Nazgul in LotR.

Regardless of whether it often works, with only a tiny bit of optimization, it will work against anything dumber than you. Remember that humans were successful persistence hunters against all the formidable animals on the planet.

Quote
No, scouting does not work
I don't know that it does, but does anyone want to tackle this one?

Quote
Idle hands is the *outsider's* workshop, yes?
Well that's a player problem rather than a rule problem. Normally DM's just say "The next day..."