How many people would be interested in a Monthly min/max contest?

[BG_Josh]

So this contest would be run and judged by the BG's.  It would be simple and relatively small scale. 

Rewards and many other details would depend on interest and involvement

Here is a link to the prototype

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2078.0

[SneeR]

Would there be a goal set each time, like run fastest or fart hardest? Because if it ends up as a "can kill everyone quickest" contest, expect people to go insane.

[sirpercival]

It would probably be based around a certain class and/or feat combo.  Concepts are too open to interpretation, there'd be no objective measure between builds; if you require every build to have 10 levels of the same class, then the relative optimization is much clearer.

[veekie]

Maybe if it was Iron Chef-like.

[skydragonknight]

If you're up for it, it would be fun to see/do. Though judging is not as easy as it looks.

How about a prize of a novelty title like: Min-Max Champion (Month, Year)?

[InnaBinder]

I'm interested, though participation would likely be based at least in part on specifics of each competition.

[Hallack]

Sounds interesting.  I expect folks will come in and out of the competition over the months as they see/find themes that interest them. 

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I'm interested, though participation would likely be based at least in part on specifics of each competition.

yup. If the topics are interesting to me, I'll make. Otherwise no.

[BG_Josh]

DnD is an overtapped well. 

Since nothing easy would be new or novel none of the contests would involve DnD.  They would involve the kind of games that experienced gamers should be familiar with.  That makes a much better test of individual skill because you would need to do your own work.  Rather than compiling the work of others.

[SneeR]

DnD is an overtapped well. 

Since nothing easy would be new or novel none of the contests would involve DnD.  They would involve the kind of games that experienced gamers should be familiar with.  That makes a much better test of individual skill because you would need to do your own work.  Rather than compiling the work of others.

That's unfair to say, Josh, and I take offense to it. The measure of a gamer's experience is not familiarity with a variety of systems! I have been playing D&D for 6 years, which is just under 1/3 my lifetime. I would say that I am an experienced gamer and roleplayer for sure: I have system mastery and competence, I have most of the rules memorized, I can talk in character and help others have a good time, and I make up my own homebrew stuff to supplement my group's experience and make my campaigns new and exciting. The fact that I have never played any system than 3.5 should not mean that I am a less-experienced gamer. I have plenty experience; just all of it with the same thing. If anything, that means I am a better gamer in the system I play than one who spent his time testing a myriad of systems.

[BG_Josh]

DnD is an overtapped well. 

Since nothing easy would be new or novel none of the contests would involve DnD.  They would involve the kind of games that experienced gamers should be familiar with.  That makes a much better test of individual skill because you would need to do your own work.  Rather than compiling the work of others.

That's unfair to say, Josh, and I take offense to it. The measure of a gamer's experience is not familiarity with a variety of systems! I have been playing D&D for 6 years, which is just under 1/3 my lifetime. I would say that I am an experienced gamer and roleplayer for sure: I have system mastery and competence, I have most of the rules memorized, I can talk in character and help others have a good time, and I make up my own homebrew stuff to supplement my group's experience and make my campaigns new and exciting. The fact that I have never played any system than 3.5 should not mean that I am a less-experienced gamer. I have plenty experience; just all of it with the same thing. If anything, that means I am a better gamer in the system I play than one who spent his time testing a myriad of systems.

A "Gamers" experience is over a range of games.  A chef does not make one meal.  An artist does not do one picture.  A reader does not read one series of books.  Athletes looking to get better are encouraged to play different sports to help with their primary.

Frankly, there is an issue of perspective involved here.  But Please do not believe me in the slightest.  Do not take my word.  I encourage you to find out for yourself.  But if you don't, no problem, though frankly I am amazed that you always want to play exactly the same kind of game.

I am sorry you are offended, but I am not sorry if it encourages you to be a better gamer.

[Basket Burner]

A meal occupies one evening, or afternoon or what have you. A tabletop game involves considerably more time, and by extension focus. It's only natural then that focusing on one game is valid and someone that plays many different games would know comparatively little about each of them.

Not only that, but by making the focus something other than the reason why almost everyone is here all you're really doing is killing interest in your own contests. It's like holding a LC tournament. Sure you can do it, but don't expect a huge turnout. Run standard OU for that.

[Complete4th]

Not only that, but by making the focus something other than the reason why almost everyone is here all you're really doing is killing interest in your own contests. It's like holding a LC tournament. Sure you can do it, but don't expect a huge turnout. Run standard OU for that.

Yeah, whether or not multi-game experience makes one a better gamer, the popularity of this contest is gonna depend largely on how many BG forumites have that experience. The genie might already be out of the bottle, but has anyone ever polled the forum for outside-of-D&D interest/experience?

[SneeR]

How do you expect me to optimize systems that I do not have the literature for? Unless you can link to the rules every time you run for a different system, this will be something I am absolutely against.

I would love to learn new systems, try them out and such, become what you have tastelessly called a "better gamer" than me,  but I have no money for books I might use only once! I am a college student living month to month on loans that will haunt me for years.

I agree with Basket Burner. Running a populated almost 75% by D&D lovers and saying they need to optimize something else is just a bit of a turn off to this cool new idea.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

I'm in if it's D&D, otherwise I either won't have the game or min/max is futile and/or subjective(monopoly, risk, uno etc...)

I submit basketweaving as evidence of untapped min/max potential, as I suspect that the preliminary borked findings there were accidental.

Psionic sandwich is another that was intended to be a terrible character; yet, variations are playable(IIRC, could be waaay of here).

How about bizzare stuff like, gestalt e6 character that makes the best use of the Dinosaur Wrangler feat.  E8 character with the highest DC breath weapon(s), has to have 3 fighter levels.
Best ranged attack, monk2, X3    20 point buy no LA.

[Basket Burner]

Even in this age of digital piracy, having to hunt down, learn, and master new metas just to enter a contest means that the cost of entry is much higher so there'd still be not very much interest.

That sort of thing only works when people are interested in actually playing the game. Someone would likely be willing to learn Shadowrun to play in a Shadowrun campaign, for example.

[Kajhera]

I have to agree, there's a reason I don't play trading card games other than Magic anymore, or tabletop games other than D&D...they take a lot of investment and you need a community for them. So I couldn't really participate unless it were something I know or something simple enough to pick up and understand fairly quickly.

[skydragonknight]

That's a tough call. I've sampled different game systems, playing one-shots or short runs of Shadowrun, V:tM, Deadlands, Burning Wheel, Traveller, Mispent Youth and I think one or two more, but can't remember. Though either they were meant as one-shots or they just dissolved by circumstance. The only ones I've really mastered have been the d20s, which is a bit unfortunate..

[BG_Josh]

I consider this a min/maxing community foremost.

Optimizing something you have little experience with is a good test of your skill. (thats true of every other talent you might posses)

Many people will not have the books.  That is both something that people will need to work around and a way a raising interest in other games.

Rather than debate "ifs" I am going to post an actual contest post as a working example.

[sirpercival]

Here's another idea: we have a huge amount of homebrew on this site.  Why don't we run homebrew-optimizing contests?

1) Few people will be very familiar with the material (the creator should of course be a judge and not a contestant), but the system mechanics WILL be familiar.
2) There are few resources out there (in terms of handbooks and whatnot), so optimizers will be using their skills instead of parroting other peoples' work.
3) It will expose the contestants and kibitzers to awesome homebrew they might not have seen otherwise.
4) Nothing tests a piece of homebrew like a bunch of optimizers trying to break it... so the homebrew designers will get a ton of feedback on their work.

Thoughts?