Author Topic: How to break Core only  (Read 3038 times)

Offline SneeR

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How to break Core only
« Topic Start: March 30, 2012, 08:01:45 PM »
I have a DM who thinks that core (MM, DMG, PHB1) is inherently more balanced than what came after.

Can people here list every way to break the game using Core only?


Forgive me if this topic has been done before or if this is in the wrong section. My search-fu may be weak.

EDIT: Besides wizard and sorcerer. Those is are demonstrably broken. I am lookng for specific combos of doom, or some particularly devastating combos involving wizard/sorc, too, if necessary.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 08:49:13 PM by SneeR »
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Offline Solo

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #1: March 30, 2012, 08:04:28 PM »
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline muktidata

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #2: March 30, 2012, 08:44:29 PM »
Yeah, destroying core is an oldie and goodie. Hopefully that helps him see things more clearly. Candles of Invocation are in the freaking Dungeon Master's Guide for crying out loud!
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Offline SneeR

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #3: March 30, 2012, 08:48:10 PM »
Okay, how about besides wizard? I can demonstrate easily enough, even more thanks to Solo's build there, but what specifics combinations of class features, spells, items, etc. would actually support banning core and nothing else?
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Online sirpercival

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #4: March 31, 2012, 04:10:40 AM »
"Unbalanced" isn't limited to things which are off the deep end.  You have things off the shallow end, too... though those are harder to demonstrate.  How does the DM feel about monks, or about the fighter vs melee cleric discrepancy?
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #5: April 01, 2012, 12:35:24 PM »
Diplomancy ... is available right at level 1, even in entirely non-magic form.

Custom Items of Skill Boosters ... (makes diplo that much more obvious)
available at level 3.

Magic Mart / Spellcasting Services ... arguably Not available in the smallest towns.
Absolutely average +0 sized towns have spellcasters, who "can" provide the services.

Awaken (+emp +max) cast on the Druid/Pally/Wiz buddy.


You could challenge the DM to see if he can figure out what
the classic Sword Of True Strike is legally supposed to cost.
As in not 1*1*2000 ; even if everyone else thinks that is right.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #7: April 02, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »
CoDzilla ... to beat most of the other classes hands down.

There aren't all that many Battlefield Control spells
in Core, but there are enough to prove that point.



Even the bad classes can afford a PAO during level 2.
Solo's got that already in his build.
The DMG +9 sized city either has a Wiz or Sorc
that could have PAO, or a higher level Commoner
with Leadership has a Wiz or Sorc Cohort with PAO.
Either buy it outright via service with the first situation,
or succeed a few Diplo checks, then buy it with the 2nd.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 03:50:16 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Online SorO_Lost

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #8: April 02, 2012, 09:41:13 PM »
Evil Cleric breaks the game with minions.
Ioun Stone + Bead of Karma = 100HD via Animate Dead.
Phylactery of Undead Turning = 24 HD of Commanded undead through Rebuking.
Armor of Undead Controlling = 26 HD of undead per Command Undead.
Planar Ally & Gate = Need help?
Elemental Domain = 20 HD of Commanded elementals through Rebuking.

And many minions just by being X give bonuses.
Like a Shadow gives you Concealment while standing in your square.
An Air Elemental+FoM produces an area try-to-pin effect that negates arrows being used against you.
A single Hydra is better than a Fighter, you can own a dozen.

I suppose if you want, you can get into the melee side. Animal gives Shapechange, grab a Monk's Belt, cast Quicken Death Ward to use a Life-Drinker, and you have higher AC than mundanes, great Strength score that's only going to get higher (divine power), and even you're weapon drains an extra 10HP per hit on top of a bunch of other stuff negative levels can do (make wights). After you're turn, you're better at offensive tank than a Fighter is. It's just, unlike the Fighter, you can stand around singing Blasphemy while your Hydra army teaches Pelor why his churches shouldn't advertise where they are built which is just so much damn cooler than walking up to people and stabbing them.

Edit - Speaking of Blasphemy. Holy Word all by it's self is better than entire characters. Classic concept is good vs evil and Holy Word amounts to your entire party takes another turn.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 09:44:39 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #9: April 03, 2012, 03:54:28 PM »
Paladin + Leadership Cohort applied to his Mount.
Mount's bonus HD puts it into epic a little early.
This doesn't do much in a core only game.
Kinda the weakest version of Supermount.
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Offline Keldar

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #10: April 03, 2012, 09:25:57 PM »
[boilerplate] Druid 20, Natural Spell at 6th.  Has a class feature as powerful as having a Fighter your level as your lackey, has more features beyond that. [/boilerplate]  Just getting that out of the way.   ;)

Spawn Army is available in core only.  Command a Shadow easily or better still use Shapechange to become one. 

Arcane Archer, even with no competition, is still so bad that every other option available is superior.  The only winning move is not to play.

Can't forget that Dragon Disciple actually functions as intended in Core Only, that's clearly broken!   :smirk  Its still terrible, but at least it doesn't cause a paradox!

Online sirpercival

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #11: April 04, 2012, 04:03:29 AM »
The wightocalypse is in core only.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #12: April 05, 2012, 03:30:47 PM »

Is core Polymorph written near enough to the last Poly-errata
... to cause the whole Polymorph Gets You Casting ??

Like, would you specifically have to not use certain official FAQ / errata stuff ?
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Offline Endarire

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #13: April 16, 2012, 07:41:29 PM »
I know it's Wizard, but Circle Magic (via Red Wizard), especially with a CL 40+ blasphemy/holy word via UMDing a staff.

Online SorO_Lost

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #14: April 16, 2012, 11:43:53 PM »
I know it's Wizard, but Circle Magic (via Red Wizard), especially with a CL 40+ blasphemy/holy word via UMDing a staff.
Yeah, kind of mentioned them. A Prayer Bead + Ioun Stone is enough for a Good Cleric to use basically an area auto Paralyze everything short of Dragons and the Big T which is like free extra turns for the entire party and in a traditional good vs evil game it is pretty applicable. They are very powerful spells just prime for abuse.
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Offline Thurbane

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Re: How to break Core only
« Reply #15: June 14, 2012, 07:54:07 PM »
It's not that hard to break the game using core only...but I think few would argue that once you throw in splats, it becomes a little easier, and you can also break it in fun and new ways.  :P