Author Topic: M:tG Deck Tips?  (Read 24882 times)

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #60: November 10, 2012, 10:36:23 AM »
Still, combo decks are entertaining but not usually that good...
Stifle Progenitus (also Akroma, Angel of Wrath, though no stifling needed here) into your graveyard while you have a Cairn Wanderer on the battlefield, opponent just clears the battlefield without targeting anything. Fffffffffff...
Progenitus' shuffle effect is a replacement ability, not an activated or triggered one. You cannot physically Stifle it. The only way to stop it from shuffling back in is if he's killed while Humility is on the battlefield. You can Stifle Emrakul's trigger and have Cairn Wanderer steal his protection effects, but you'd be better served to just reanimate Emrakul for that same 5 mana with something like Beacon of Unrest.
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Offline Tr011

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #61: November 11, 2012, 09:08:57 AM »
If you want to stifle, go StifleNought.
But I think topic was creature-free, maybe just go for a good old creature-free burn deck (not as good as burn with 12-14 creatures, but good enough to kill any casual deck).
Lava Spike, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Magma Jet, Flame Rift, Rift Bolt, Price of Progress, Fireblast, maybe Incinerate...

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #62: March 10, 2013, 07:22:36 PM »
Thoughts on this casual Izzet deck?  I've been trying to keep to watermarked cards as much as possible, though that's not exactly a rule.  The general goal of the deck is to keep saying no until you can field a dragon...or until they die to Gelectrode pinging.

Creatures
4 Gelectrode
4 Goblin Electromancer
2 Hypersonic Dragon
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind

Instants
2 Blustersquall
4 Cyclonic Rift
4 Electrolyze
4 Fire // Ice
4 Izzet Charm
2 Street Spasm

Lands
11 Island
1 Izzet Guildgate
11 Mountain
1 Steam Vents

Sorceries
4 Mizzium Mortars
Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #63: March 11, 2013, 02:57:11 AM »
Thoughts on this casual Izzet deck?  I've been trying to keep to watermarked cards as much as possible, though that's not exactly a rule.  The general goal of the deck is to keep saying no until you can field a dragon...or until they die to Gelectrode pinging.

*snip*

I'm not up on the latest sets (new Ravnica block came out recently I think)and what is in which format, but this isn't Type 2 is it?
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #64: March 11, 2013, 03:43:19 AM »
It's not type 2, no. Fire//Ice puts it past Modern into Legacy so it fits into the "casual" format with legacy legality but not legacy power level.

I'm not up on the latest block either so I can't help much. I'd definitely find some more Guildgates and/or some Izzet Boilerworks if you can't field more of the rare lands.

You really want some more drawing in there or you're likely to peter out if you don't get lucky and pull a threat they can't answer. Not sure what specifically, I don't know if there is any good drawing with the Izzet watermark. Compulsive Research and Telling Time were both in Ravnica but not watermarked.

Inicdentally, I saw the (over a year old) discussion about discard decks on the other MTG thread on this board and it brought to mind this build, which is what I'd probably go with if I was buying a new casual 1v1 deck.

Swamp x22
(22 Land)

Mindlash Sliver x4
Ravenous Rats x4
Augur of Skulls x4
Oona's Prowler x4
Hypnotic Specter x4
Guul Draz Specter x2
(22 Creatures)

The Rack x4

Raven's Crime x4
Hymn to Tourach x4

Dark Ritual x4
(16 Other Spells)

Picking up on that conversation, discard can work pretty well in 1v1 casual (1v1 only. Single target discard is awful in multiplayer.) It's not really analogous to a permission deck because it works best in an aggro configuration. Discard attached to cheap creatures with some beaters thrown in. Oona's Prowler is perfect in the latter role because its "drawback" for being a 3/1 flyer for 2 feeds into exactly what you want your deck to be doing anyway. Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter was the original backbreaking turn 1 play and it's still fun, if significantly less powerful, now.

The other reason discard is not analogous to permission is that you can't counter lands but you can discard them just like any other card. That means that, if the discard engine is functioning, the opponent's mana base will be shaky at best and a lucky random discard off Hymn to Tourach can be crippling for a while.

The worst matchup is other aggro decks but in those games The Rack and Guul Draz Specter will go off more often. If I was the type to build a sideboard for a casual deck, I'd probably put some Quest for the Nihil Stone in it for that sort of matchup.

Raven's Crime could be a number of other 1 mana discard sorceries. Thoughtseize would obviously be ideal but is never likely to be in budget for me. Inquisition of Kozilek was probably the runner up. Raven's Crime goes for the reach angle, if I get mana flooded it's something to do with excess land (as more than 4 is really not necessary.) Inquisition is more aggressive. If I can strip a critical low cost creature they were going to stabilize with, that's great, and if there's nothing nonland or CMC 3 or below I've probably already won.

This all applies to a casual meta, of course. This is nothing that would be close to legacy viable.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:56:09 AM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #65: March 11, 2013, 03:59:48 PM »
I'm not up on the latest sets (new Ravnica block came out recently I think)and what is in which format, but this isn't Type 2 is it?

Nah, strictly casual.  We don't really pay attention much to format, though we tend to avoid mixing card frame types for aesthetic reasons.

I'm not up on the latest block either so I can't help much. I'd definitely find some more Guildgates and/or some Izzet Boilerworks if you can't field more of the rare lands.

I always end up feeling bad playing the boilerworks, since they bounce a land and come into play tapped.  I'd probably field more guildgates, if anything, but I don't tend to run into many color issues.  Hopefully, I'll pull more Steam Vents from Dragon's Maze packs.  I'll tinker with it and see if adding more guildgates slows me down too much.

You really want some more drawing in there or you're likely to peter out if you don't get lucky and pull a threat they can't answer. Not sure what specifically, I don't know if there is any good drawing with the Izzet watermark. Compulsive Research and Telling Time were both in Ravnica but not watermarked.

Well, the watermarking isn't a hard and fast rule, hence Fire // Ice.  I'm a bit surprised that I'd need more card draw, though.  I don't play against many counter-based decks, so I tend to be able to burn down any creatures they field.  One Gelectrode and a Mizzium Mortars can take out something with six toughness, so they really have to work to keep something out.  I also figured that the card draw from Electrolyze and Izzet Charm would be enough, but I'll root around and see if there's anything I can shoehorn in there.  Maybe replace the Hypersonics with Prophetic Bolt?



Inicdentally, I saw the (over a year old) discussion about discard decks on the other MTG thread on this board and it brought to mind this build, which is what I'd probably go with if I was buying a new casual 1v1 deck.

*snip*

Picking up on that conversation, discard can work pretty well in 1v1 casual (1v1 only. Single target discard is awful in multiplayer.) It's not really analogous to a permission deck because it works best in an aggro configuration. Discard attached to cheap creatures with some beaters thrown in. Oona's Prowler is perfect in the latter role because its "drawback" for being a 3/1 flyer for 2 feeds into exactly what you want your deck to be doing anyway. Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter was the original backbreaking turn 1 play and it's still fun, if significantly less powerful, now.

You said you're not quite up on the latest block, so I'm going to throw vaguely relevant things in your direction.  This is based on the assumption of creature-based aggro/discard.
Mental Vapors
Slate Street Ruffian
Wight of Precinct Six

Given the return of the Dimir, there are also a lot of things that mill until they hit a land.  Not exactly discard, but close enough that it might be worth mentioning.

I don't know much about playing black, mind you, so I don't have much advice off the top of my head.  I'll try to poke around a little later.
Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #66: March 11, 2013, 08:15:17 PM »
Nah, strictly casual.  We don't really pay attention much to format, though we tend to avoid mixing card frame types for aesthetic reasons.
Hmm, I was going to suggest looking at UR Magnivore, UR Snapcaster,  or Quicksilver Dagger/Horseshoe Crab ping. But if you're trying to keep it to watermarked (the penny just dropped on that remark  :banghead) and not just a UR theme I'm going to have to sift through the grey matter a bit more. After another coffee.

Or two.

Oh, and I love Izzet Guildmage. Why not some of the Shadowmoor cards? The set that actually had UR Duergars and Donkey things in it.
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Offline DonQuixote

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #67: March 11, 2013, 11:17:22 PM »
Hmm, I was going to suggest looking at UR Magnivore, UR Snapcaster,  or Quicksilver Dagger/Horseshoe Crab ping. But if you're trying to keep it to watermarked (the penny just dropped on that remark  :banghead) and not just a UR theme I'm going to have to sift through the grey matter a bit more. After another coffee.

Well, suggest away, anyway.  I always love having ideas to tinker with, and looking at the decklists, even if I don't use them, will still give me a better idea of what I should be doing.

I've actually used Magnivore before in a hilarious blue-red mill that ran on things like putting Dual Casting on Gelectrode, suspending Wheel of Fate and unloading a bunch of instants topped by a Brain Freeze, and other shenanigans.  It was cute.

Oh, and I love Izzet Guildmage. Why not some of the Shadowmoor cards? The set that actually had UR Duergars and Donkey things in it.

The Duergars were actually RW, for the record.  And the Noggles tend to push a bit more in...I don't actually know what direction, but some direction.  I'm really liking the instant and sorcery focus at the moment, since it lets me clamp down with Gelectrode.

That said, I'll give Shadowmoor a look-over later this week.  More hybrid is always a good thing.
Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #68: March 12, 2013, 12:01:02 AM »
Well, suggest away, anyway.  I always love having ideas to tinker with, and looking at the decklists, even if I don't use them, will still give me a better idea of what I should be doing.

K. So it was UR Magnivore. Focused wholly and solely on using Sorcery's to slow your opponent down until you got a Magnivore out. Or Niv-Mizzet (usually a one of).
Cards like Eye to/of Nowhere, Demolish, Fire//Ice, Wildfire.
There was a Sorcery style Shock in there, more Land destruction and bounce. Just to give you an idea of what the deck does... Sorry to be so vague, I'll get the deck list when I can. I'm sure I've got it somewhere at home...

Snapcaster Mage decks had a stint in T2 in the block with Vampires and Werewolves. It was early/mid tempo aggro control. An iconic card in that was the U for a 1/1 Human that flipped to being a 3/3 or 3/2 Bug flying thing. At least, iconic for me, as I always seemed to get it in the handful of games I played the deck.

UR ping was Invasion/Apocalypse era. Horseshoe Crab, Quicksilver Dagger, Minotaur Illusionist, Prodigal Sorceror, Counterspell.
That being said it was more of a muck around, and was made before any of us really got into MtG and competitive play.

Quote
The Duergars were actually RW, for the record.  And the Noggles tend to push a bit more in...I don't actually know what direction, but some direction.  I'm really liking the instant and sorcery focus at the moment, since it lets me clamp down with Gelectrode.

That said, I'll give Shadowmoor a look-over later this week.  More hybrid is always a good thing.

Yes, they were RW. Thank you for that  :)
Erm, it wasn't Shadowmoor in particular I was talking about. Just the set with the Noggles in. I didn't really see much of that set, so there could be gems in there. The whole Lorwyn block had nice stuff in it though. Special memories of the first two sets... ahh, 5 colour control... so much fun.
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Bhu: Favorite quote of the day: Ill make love to you like a confused bear. Awkwardly. And in a manner that suggests Im trying to escape.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #69: March 14, 2013, 06:19:04 PM »
K. So it was UR Magnivore. Focused wholly and solely on using Sorcery's to slow your opponent down until you got a Magnivore out. Or Niv-Mizzet (usually a one of).
Cards like Eye to/of Nowhere, Demolish, Fire//Ice, Wildfire.
There was a Sorcery style Shock in there, more Land destruction and bounce. Just to give you an idea of what the deck does... Sorry to be so vague, I'll get the deck list when I can. I'm sure I've got it somewhere at home...

Sounds fun.  I'll see if I can dig up some Magnivores and give it a whirl.

Snapcaster Mage decks had a stint in T2 in the block with Vampires and Werewolves. It was early/mid tempo aggro control. An iconic card in that was the U for a 1/1 Human that flipped to being a 3/3 or 3/2 Bug flying thing. At least, iconic for me, as I always seemed to get it in the handful of games I played the deck.

Yeah, less enthusiastic about forking over the $20-a-pop for snapcasters.  Delver of Secrets is definitely something I'll toy around with.

UR ping was Invasion/Apocalypse era. Horseshoe Crab, Quicksilver Dagger, Minotaur Illusionist, Prodigal Sorceror, Counterspell.
That being said it was more of a muck around, and was made before any of us really got into MtG and competitive play.

I actually have almost all those cards, despite it being something like thirteen years ago.  Of course, now you have things like Goblin Fireslinger and Prodigal Pyromancer lying around, not to mention Gelectrode.  Everybody loves Quicksilver Dagger, though.

Yes, they were RW. Thank you for that  :)
Erm, it wasn't Shadowmoor in particular I was talking about. Just the set with the Noggles in. I didn't really see much of that set, so there could be gems in there. The whole Lorwyn block had nice stuff in it though. Special memories of the first two sets... ahh, 5 colour control... so much fun.

Lorwyn is one of those blocks that I really regret missing.  It's just so silly.
Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #70: March 17, 2013, 11:30:00 PM »
Sounds fun.  I'll see if I can dig up some Magnivores and give it a whirl.
Sorry, I've in a self-imposed exile from the internet and computer for the past half a week (visiting g/f). I'll try get the list tonight.

Yeah, less enthusiastic about forking over the $20-a-pop for snapcasters.  Delver of Secrets is definitely something I'll toy around with.
Definitely understandable. One of the things that shits me with card games (not even mentioning them bringing out the legendary rarity... silliest idea ever imo)

Lorwyn is one of those blocks that I really regret missing.  It's just so silly.
Probably one of my favourite sets to play standard with. As a side note Ravnica and the return to Mirrodin (with Phyrexia) sets (best memory if you haven't noticed) were good fun as sealed.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #71: March 18, 2013, 12:32:40 AM »
If you're looking for a Magnivore list, this is a fairly typical example.

Offline dipolartech

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #72: March 20, 2013, 12:43:55 PM »
Anybody willing to shoot me some pointers?

I've got a temporary playing partner for M:tG and i realized that none of my old standby decks are blue...
So i'm looking for some things in the 2013 core set to build a "knowledgeable" blue/red deck. I dunno if Index is 2013 core but I like that card so i'm looking for card retrieval, deck organization, and then some creatures in red and blue to set up kills with (or options like landwalks, and something to counter flying)

Index, Encrust, exile, landwalk, double strike, flying 9or a counter to it),

 perhaps some proliferate? whats that poison clasp card thing with proliferate from? its in a duel deck my buddy let me play with and I think its taken me five games to get the hang of it.

Offline Halinn

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #73: March 21, 2013, 01:40:44 AM »
Last I played (2007-8 or so... wow it's been a long time), MTG Salvation was the best place in general for Magic (other sites covering specific formats better, but this one being the most all-round and most accessible place). I suggest giving that site, mainly the forums, a look for any advice you might need.

Index is, in fact, in Magic 2013

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #74: March 21, 2013, 08:39:35 AM »
Another slightly different take on UR Magnivore

4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Pyroclasm
4 Stone Rain
3 Wildfire
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Eye of Nowhere
2 Counsel of the Soratami
4 Demolish
4 Compulsive Research
1 Tidings

3 Magnivore

11 Island
8 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef

Sideboard
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Mana Leak
1 Tidings
3 Icy Manipulator
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #75: March 21, 2013, 04:45:49 PM »
Anybody willing to shoot me some pointers?

I've got a temporary playing partner for M:tG and i realized that none of my old standby decks are blue...
So i'm looking for some things in the 2013 core set to build a "knowledgeable" blue/red deck. I dunno if Index is 2013 core but I like that card so i'm looking for card retrieval, deck organization, and then some creatures in red and blue to set up kills with (or options like landwalks, and something to counter flying)

Index, Encrust, exile, landwalk, double strike, flying 9or a counter to it),

 perhaps some proliferate? whats that poison clasp card thing with proliferate from? its in a duel deck my buddy let me play with and I think its taken me five games to get the hang of it.

Contagion Clasp was in the Elspeth vs Tezzeret deck. That was a pretty solid deck.

U/R tends more to aggro than what you seem to be aiming for but it's not impossible to go controllish (though U/R control is often more big mana with X spells as finishers than classic U permission control.) Index isn't bad, but it's negative card advantage so I don't know that I'd recommend it.

Are you going for a specific format? 2013 doesn't have much in U that would work all that well in the deck you seem to be angling for.

Offline dipolartech

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #76: March 21, 2013, 09:45:54 PM »
I don't have a specific format in mind, just trying to keep my initial purchases to core set at the moment. As self regulation not to buy fat packs in every set thats out right now in essence.... I'm not really looking for control per se, I want to be able to get my cards, and I want something between u/r that packs a killing punch, I drafted a deck with a friend and I was seriously lacking in punch despite being bale to draw cards and index things as i please.

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #77: March 24, 2013, 04:34:23 PM »
My recommendation is to figure out the deck you want, maybe proxy it to make sure it draws in a satisfactory way, and then buy it online as singles (or from a store if you have one with a big enough selection, but most people don't.)

I really prefer buying singles to buying packs. You get a great deal more for your money and, esp for casual players who don't care about format legality, you can tap into older sets which are cheaper by virtue of not being standard legal.

For instance, Telling Time would be an excellent alternative to Index as it lets you sort the top of your deck while also drawing a card and so not being negative card advantage. It's not sought after for any particular format right now so it wouldn't cost more than 25 cents a card (quite possibly less depending on the site you use.)

Soothsaying is even older and more obscure and would let you do serious deep digging over several turns (and has a shuffle mechanism if you dislike the top of your deck.)

There's also Sage Owl and Augury Owl which combine an Index effect with a body. I prefer the latter because I'm not a huge fan of cards that let you see the top of your deck without letting you do anything about it if you're about to draw 4 land in a row but if you like Index, Sage Owl is pretty much Index + a flier.

On a slightly different note, Discombobulate and Condescend give you similar effects + a counterspell.

But leaving the Index issue, where do you want the deck to fall speed wise?

Roughly there are 4 classifications of deck based on speed of kill and mana curve. Aggro is fastest/lowest and Control is slowest/highest. In between there's Aggro/control and midrange with the former being closer to aggro and the latter closer to control.

The classic U/R deck is aggro/control. Specifically weenies and burn backed up by counters and drawing. Is that what you're going for, or something slower?

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #78: March 24, 2013, 11:52:49 PM »
Quick addition to amazing "Index" + draw cards.

Ponder and Serum Visions. U cost, Sorcery. Both draw and both have sort the top of your deck out.
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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #79: March 25, 2013, 01:18:39 AM »
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/details.aspx?name=Sensei's%20Divining%20Top

Sensei's Divining Top is arguably the best card of this type i can think about right now. When Kamigawa was on Standard, literally EVERY deck ran 4 of these. They're actually good enough to make an appearance in some Legacy decks, too. Costs one, you can control your draw order, and it even has a draw mechanic built into it, although it bites you next turn by effectively robbing you of that turn's draw, but it makes possible to do some really awesome min-maxing.

Plus, it's an artifact, so it can go in any colored deck. Pretty awesome if you ask me.  It's banned on Modern, though, so keep that in mind, if you plan on doing tournaments in that format. (Being banned in a format just goes to show just how powerful this card actually is).

Combine it with Jace, Memory Adept, or  even better, the ever broken Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and you have near to perfect control of your draws. It's pretty awesome.

Blue has always been one of my favorite colors ever since i started Magic. Love it how it is one of the colors where you have to put the most thought into how your deck functions.

Also, Ponder, another really really cool card. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=264444. Like a Sensei's Divining Top + shuffle effect all in one. Look your top three cards with Sensei's Divining Top. Don't like them? Drop a Ponder, dig a land out or something, shuffle your library. Preordain is also pretty neat, look top 2, put any in bottom, then draw a card.

Like i said, near perfect control of your draws is possible.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 01:21:48 AM by brujon »
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life