Author Topic: General Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 28384 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #520: November 12, 2016, 12:52:11 PM »
We just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.
Itís not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Donít get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, itís just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.


I did. The issue was more that I wasn't able to memorize all the different options, because level 7 characters in this system have a *lot* of options. Also, recording changes to spirit pools was awkward (which happened because the combined unit had Soul of the Machine)
Well the last bit it's not my fault since it's 4th party material. :P

Is the reason the Counter feat can't be used to trigger counters just balance? Because I've got players that want to be able to use multiple counters (maneuvers) in one round.
Balance yes. There's some pretty powerful counter maneuvers around.

Also, Why is the soulgain listed in the real robots description but not the chart, and vice-versa for the arkgain. Are they intended to be the same unit?
Also, the R-1 is listed as the R1 in the real robot list. either both instances should be R-1 or both should be R1 (this is bugging one of my players).
Also, the Rapiecage doesn't have a maneuverability listed for its fly speed
Typos fixed.

Also, you commented on making a transforming mecha for all arsenal grades. some suggestions my players came up with: Altairlion (which would of course need a corresponding Vegalion), Wildraubtier Schnabel, and ART-1 (which would also serve to fix my minor gripe about "why can't the R-1 have T-Link Knuckle?)
Well, because it's a grade I mecha, and also because it can be represented by maneuvers, in particular since it's supposed to be Ryusei's own technique. If I remember correctly "normal" pilots can't even use it if you switch machines around. But otherwise those are good suggestions on reals to tackle next.

The Alteisen Riese seems to be overpowered in comparison to other options. It has more HP than is possible on a super robot (the designated tanks) at 400 as compared to the max HP on a super robot being 315 (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 390). It has more natural armor than a super can have at 22 as compared to the 12 a super can have (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 18). It has more DR than a super can have at 40 as compared to 35 (without Great Plating, which does bring it up to 48, if itís colossal). It has the same EN as a super without batteries, but supers tend to be more energy intensive than reals anyway. It has a +7 bonus to saves, while a super can only have at most +6. It has 125Mu movement speed, while a super's top speed is 85Mu (without Great Agility, which does bring it up to 140, if it's colossal). It has five hardpoints, more than any other unit in the conversion save the Ashsaber. Its weapons, likewise, are incredibly powerful. its Revolving Bunker would take 9 super robot upgrades to recreate (roughly), and that's not including its to hit bonus. While this is partially balanced out by its low ammo count, it's still incredibly strong. The Claymore Avalanche is also a very powerful weapon. It's stronger than anything a super robot can have save a fully Mighty'd twinned heavy weapon, and even that will consume much more resources than the Claymores.

As for its comparisons with reals, it has the same net AC bonus as its closest competitor in the role of melee real, the Banpreios, four times the move speed, 33% more HP, only 5 less EN (and only has one EN consuming weapon), +2 points of save bonus, +15 arsenal space, +3 hardpoints, and 5 extra DR. As for a weapon comparison, while Altered Full Burst does have a massive range increase over the Claymore Avalanche, it does less damage and can only be fired twice before needing recharging, as compared to the claymore's four shots. similarly, while the T-Link Tronium Edge is much stronger than the Revolving Bunker, it can only be fired once as opposed to six times. Ranged combat is the only area the Alteisen Riese truly suffers, where it is greatly outdone by the Astranagant

If this is not an intentional design aspect, I would recommend reducing its capabilities in either defenses or weapons, or improving its competitors. If this is an intentional design aspect, would you please explain why?

Look at my avatar.

Ahem, the Alteisen Riese has the most HP/DR/ammo along because its design proccess basically was "add ALL the armor plating/bullets!". For Juddecca's sake, the Alteisen Riese has two tesla engines in-built just to be able to walk with all the weight it's carrying around! Do notice it has the worst Dodge around besides the Alteisen itself.

Anyway the other level VII reals may be lagging behind a bit, so I'll review them a bit and check ways to buff them as needed when I'm not half-asleep anymore.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #521: November 12, 2016, 02:10:22 PM »
The Pinning property reduces the speed by half for normal weapons and by 1/4 for heavy weapons. Usually the heavy weapons have a stronger effect so perhaps you meant it to be reduced by 3/4 or reduced to 1/4 (same thing).

For Peace Princess, the ability description for Rags to Royalty V and VI are listed as IV and VV.
Does Peace Princess multiclass with other stuff as a Super Pilot? Same for the Arcane Pilot. (AP multclasses with Super Pilot clearly though to as clearly with other stuff).
Same with the Divine Pilot multiclassing as a Real Pilot would.

A typo: "Divine Pilot levels stack with Real Pilot levels for determining your SuperReal Robot level."

Also, I notice that PP and the Arcane Pilot mention taking their super robot from the Super Robot List. While there is indeed a "Super Robots List", it isn't really much of a list such as there is for the Real Robots. The Super Robots get a progression and upgrade points based on their super pilot class level so it would probably be clearer and simpler to simply have their levels treated as super pilot levels for the purpose of determining upgrade points and SRobot progression, then applying the weaker modifiers to its stats. It doesn't apply as well as it does for the Divine Pilot, from which this entry was probably copied.

The arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.

Quote
...thus having no Arsenal space leftover, and actually have to sacrifice armor, ending up with 3/5 HP, Energy, Nat armor and DR of ďregularĒ versions (minimum -1 at each of those stats)
Is that meant to include the increases from upgrades or only the base stats? Such as hyperdimensional storage granting no arsenal space (but can still add a hardpoint) and and Plating granting 6 hp instead of 10. And less nat armor/DR.

Her Mercy ability's second effect upon being reduced to 1 hp doesn't do much against targets that aren't mecha. It can however reduce someone to 5 mu (30-ft). Is there supposed to be a difference between the 2nd and 9th effect?

Also, some Peace Princess abilities may need prerequisites. Such as not being able to get higher spell levels before getting the earlier ones, or granting arsenal access of IV before granting the lower ones. The ability to grant so many other mechas access to the higher level arsenal options is probably too strong though. Instead of full access, it should maybe be a specific amount of arsenal option picks, split between any amount of different mecha. The number of picks limited by the number of times the ability is selected, including those for the lower arsenal levels.

Might also want to clarify what the PP counts as for spirits. Maybe ship captain considering the rest of her kit.
Speaking of which, the ship captain doesn't have any spirit that has a spirit cost that is low enough to be used as a first spirit. They are practically forced to take another class' spirit, which is weird.

Heats: 
Quote
...gains all of the Super Robot upgrades of its members, plus 1 "temporary" Upgrade Point per Team member  that only apply while combined. It counts as having the average Pilot Level of its members for determining what those "temporary" upgrades can be.
Not sure how this is supposed to work. As is it seems to stack all the super upgrades and then add a few extra ones that depends only on who the lead pilot is. But is this combination bypassing the usual maximum of upgrade points per option?
To be sure I got this right, for example; Level 2 SR with plating 2 combining with another Level 2 SR with plating 2 gets Plating 4 with 2 temporary upgrade points that can again be put into plating 2 (with plating 3 for the temporary points being impossible even if there was a third SR in the combination since their average pilot level of 2 has a max of 2)?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 01:23:50 AM by Anomander »

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #522: November 12, 2016, 02:24:02 PM »
We just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.
Itís not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Donít get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, itís just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.


I did. The issue was more that I wasn't able to memorize all the different options, because level 7 characters in this system have a *lot* of options. Also, recording changes to spirit pools was awkward (which happened because the combined unit had Soul of the Machine)
Well the last bit it's not my fault since it's 4th party material. :P

Is the reason the Counter feat can't be used to trigger counters just balance? Because I've got players that want to be able to use multiple counters (maneuvers) in one round.
Balance yes. There's some pretty powerful counter maneuvers around.

Also, Why is the soulgain listed in the real robots description but not the chart, and vice-versa for the arkgain. Are they intended to be the same unit?
Also, the R-1 is listed as the R1 in the real robot list. either both instances should be R-1 or both should be R1 (this is bugging one of my players).
Also, the Rapiecage doesn't have a maneuverability listed for its fly speed
Typos fixed.

Also, you commented on making a transforming mecha for all arsenal grades. some suggestions my players came up with: Altairlion (which would of course need a corresponding Vegalion), Wildraubtier Schnabel, and ART-1 (which would also serve to fix my minor gripe about "why can't the R-1 have T-Link Knuckle?)
Well, because it's a grade I mecha, and also because it can be represented by maneuvers, in particular since it's supposed to be Ryusei's own technique. If I remember correctly "normal" pilots can't even use it if you switch machines around. But otherwise those are good suggestions on reals to tackle next.

The Alteisen Riese seems to be overpowered in comparison to other options. It has more HP than is possible on a super robot (the designated tanks) at 400 as compared to the max HP on a super robot being 315 (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 390). It has more natural armor than a super can have at 22 as compared to the 12 a super can have (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 18). It has more DR than a super can have at 40 as compared to 35 (without Great Plating, which does bring it up to 48, if itís colossal). It has the same EN as a super without batteries, but supers tend to be more energy intensive than reals anyway. It has a +7 bonus to saves, while a super can only have at most +6. It has 125Mu movement speed, while a super's top speed is 85Mu (without Great Agility, which does bring it up to 140, if it's colossal). It has five hardpoints, more than any other unit in the conversion save the Ashsaber. Its weapons, likewise, are incredibly powerful. its Revolving Bunker would take 9 super robot upgrades to recreate (roughly), and that's not including its to hit bonus. While this is partially balanced out by its low ammo count, it's still incredibly strong. The Claymore Avalanche is also a very powerful weapon. It's stronger than anything a super robot can have save a fully Mighty'd twinned heavy weapon, and even that will consume much more resources than the Claymores.

As for its comparisons with reals, it has the same net AC bonus as its closest competitor in the role of melee real, the Banpreios, four times the move speed, 33% more HP, only 5 less EN (and only has one EN consuming weapon), +2 points of save bonus, +15 arsenal space, +3 hardpoints, and 5 extra DR. As for a weapon comparison, while Altered Full Burst does have a massive range increase over the Claymore Avalanche, it does less damage and can only be fired twice before needing recharging, as compared to the claymore's four shots. similarly, while the T-Link Tronium Edge is much stronger than the Revolving Bunker, it can only be fired once as opposed to six times. Ranged combat is the only area the Alteisen Riese truly suffers, where it is greatly outdone by the Astranagant

If this is not an intentional design aspect, I would recommend reducing its capabilities in either defenses or weapons, or improving its competitors. If this is an intentional design aspect, would you please explain why?

Look at my avatar.

Ahem, the Alteisen Riese has the most HP/DR/ammo along because its design proccess basically was "add ALL the armor plating/bullets!". For Juddecca's sake, the Alteisen Riese has two tesla engines in-built just to be able to walk with all the weight it's carrying around! Do notice it has the worst Dodge around besides the Alteisen itself.

Anyway the other level VII reals may be lagging behind a bit, so I'll review them a bit and check ways to buff them as needed when I'm not half-asleep anymore.

Responses respectively:
No, it's your material. It's near the bottom of the super robot upgrade list.

That's reasonable.

Thank you.

Not sure which maneuver, but that makes sense.

Just because Alt has the most armor/plating/bullets etc... does not mean it should be better at what super robots do than super robots. Don't get me wrong, I love Alt, but it renders the Super Pilot class basically moot at that level, aside from Burning Justice maneuvers.

Other than that:
Is it intentional that Real Pilots get 7 spirits when everyone else gets 6?
Peace Princess doesn't have Spirited at level 1 on the chart. Is this intentional?
Is it intentional that Einst Queen and Ship Captain do not get any SP from first level?
Also, Peace Princess's "Sweet Princess" option is kinda silly. I see the intent behind it, but it means if you can survive three attacks from an enemy, they're no longer an enemy, with no save allowed, and it's not mind-affecting so it works even on things like oozes (unless I'm missing something)
the Einst Queen's ability "Queen's Will" says it allows any biodrones controlled to use the Einst Queen's BAB "if better", but biodrones don't have a BAB. is this intentional, or a typo?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 09:41:50 PM by CKirk »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #523: November 13, 2016, 11:15:37 AM »
The Pinning property reduces the speed by half for normal weapons and by 1/4 for heavy weapons. Usually the heavy weapons have a stronger effect so perhaps you meant it to be reduced by 3/4 or reduced to 1/4 (same thing).
Fixed

For Peace Princess, the ability description for Rags to Royalty V and VI are listed as IV and VV.
Does Peace Princess multiclass with other stuff as a Super Pilot? Same for the Arcane Pilot. (AP multclasses with Super Pilot clearly though to as clearly with other stuff).
Same with the Divine Pilot multiclassing as a Real Pilot would.

A typo: "Divine Pilot levels stack with Real Pilot levels for determining your SuperReal Robot level."
Fixed/cleaned it up.

Also, I notice that PP and the Arcane Pilot mention taking their super robot from the Super Robot List. While there is indeed a "Super Robots List", it isn't really much of a list such as there is for the Real Robots. The Super Robots get a progression and upgrade points based on their super pilot class level so it would probably be clearer and simpler to simply have their levels treated as super pilot levels for the purpose of determining upgrade points and SRobot progression, then applying the weaker modifiers to its stats. It doesn't apply as well as it does for the Divine Pilot, from which this entry was probably copied.
It applies well enough. Super Robot list is in too many places for me to have time to find and apply a customized new text to every each one of them.

The arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.
A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.

Quote
...thus having no Arsenal space leftover, and actually have to sacrifice armor, ending up with 3/5 HP, Energy, Nat armor and DR of ďregularĒ versions (minimum -1 at each of those stats)
Is that meant to include the increases from upgrades or only the base stats? Such as hyperdimensional storage granting no arsenal space (but can still add a hardpoint) and and Plating granting 6 hp instead of 10. And less nat armor/DR.
Correct, applies to everything.

Her Mercy ability's second effect upon being reduced to 1 hp doesn't do much against targets that aren't mecha. It can however reduce someone to 5 mu (30-ft). Is there supposed to be a difference between the 2nd and 9th effect?
Overhauled Mercy.

Also, some Peace Princess abilities may need prerequisites. Such as not being able to get higher spell levels before getting the earlier ones, or granting arsenal access of IV before granting the lower ones. The ability to grant so many other mechas access to the higher level arsenal options is probably too strong though. Instead of full access, it should maybe be a specific amount of arsenal option picks, split between any amount of different mecha. The number of picks limited by the number of times the ability is selected, including those for the lower arsenal levels.
Good points about the connections line, applied them. However the spells having no pre-requisites is intended since there is an use in knowing lower level spells, but I also wanted to allow "suddenly big arcane power".

Might also want to clarify what the PP counts as for spirits. Maybe ship captain considering the rest of her kit.
Speaking of which, the ship captain doesn't have any spirit that has a spirit cost that is low enough to be used as a first spirit. They are practically forced to take another class' spirit, which is weird.
Ship Captain, also changed Scan to Ship Captain as well.

Heats: 
Quote
...gains all of the Super Robot upgrades of its members, plus 1 "temporary" Upgrade Point per Team member  that only apply while combined. It counts as having the average Pilot Level of its members for determining what those "temporary" upgrades can be.
Not sure how this is supposed to work. As is it seems to stack all the super upgrades and then add a few extra ones that depends only on who the lead pilot is. But is this combination bypassing the usual maximum of upgrade points per option?
To be sure I got this right, for example; Level 2 SR with plating 2 combining with another Level 2 SR with plating 2 gets Plating 4 with 2 temporary upgrade points that can again be put into plating 2 (with plating 3 for the temporary points being impossible even if there was a third SR in the combination since their average pilot level of 2 has a max of 2)?
Upgrades from the base unit count towards limit of temporary upgrades, clarified.

Responses respectively:
No, it's your material. It's near the bottom of the super robot upgrade list.

That's reasonable.

Thank you.

Not sure which maneuver, but that makes sense.
-Ups, my bad. :blush
-Added Wildbrautier upgrade with complicated name and ART-1

Just because Alt has the most armor/plating/bullets etc... does not mean it should be better at what super robots do than super robots. Don't get me wrong, I love Alt, but it renders the Super Pilot class basically moot at that level, aside from Burning Justice maneuvers.
Well, a Super Pilot at that level would have the advantage of higher energy to use maneuvers plus Soul of the Machine.

Other than that:
Is it intentional that Real Pilots get 7 spirits when everyone else gets 6?
Peace Princess doesn't have Spirited at level 1 on the chart. Is this intentional?
Is it intentional that Einst Queen and Ship Captain do not get any SP from first level?
Also, Peace Princess's "Sweet Princess" option is kinda silly. I see the intent behind it, but it means if you can survive three attacks from an enemy, they're no longer an enemy, with no save allowed, and it's not mind-affecting so it works even on things like oozes (unless I'm missing something)
the Einst Queen's ability "Queen's Will" says it allows any biodrones controlled to use the Einst Queen's BAB "if better", but biodrones don't have a BAB. is this intentional, or a typo?
-Ups, no. Traded the last spirit for another bonus feat.
-Yes.
-Eeerr, Ship Captain/Einst Queen's spirit points are based on their class level, why wouldn't the first level count?
-Clarified that you need four sets of three, not a single set of three. So 12 attacks.
-Any Bab is better than no Bab.

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #524: November 13, 2016, 01:23:34 PM »
Just because Alt has the most armor/plating/bullets etc... does not mean it should be better at what super robots do than super robots. Don't get me wrong, I love Alt, but it renders the Super Pilot class basically moot at that level, aside from Burning Justice maneuvers.
Well, a Super Pilot at that level would have the advantage of higher energy to use maneuvers plus Soul of the Machine.

Is it intentional that Einst Queen and Ship Captain do not get any SP from first level?
-Eeerr, Ship Captain/Einst Queen's spirit points are based on their class level, why wouldn't the first level count?
Respectively:
Clearly, I can't get my point across. Sorry for pressing the issue.

Just seemed kinda confusing 'cuz they only get Spirited/Queen's Spirit at level 2, and usually scaling class features scale starting at the level they're gained.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #525: November 13, 2016, 02:14:27 PM »
Thanks for the reply.

Quote
Quote
The arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.
A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.
Ah, so a multiclass pilot is supposed to combined the modifier on the final mecha instead of its super component. The entries gave me the impression that a multiclass divine/arcane/peace-p applied their reduction only to the super robot stats, handled separately from the stats added to the mecha from Real Pilot, Ship captain and so on.
(Ship Captain 18/Peace Princess 2 would then have a strong n' tough ship that isn't as strong as a full Ship Captain 20 but would have access to a few weaker PP abilities instead of having the entire 18 level of battleship reduced for them) Same with casting; the penalties and gains being in proportion for each side.
But all right.

Apologies if the question was asked before, but can a casting Pilot/PP channel spells/PP abilities through a full-stats mecha using Amplifier upgrades? Probably one amplifier per spell/ability.
Also, it was probably intended but many PP abilities do not have to be channeled as they either affect her directly or do not have to be used, such as bonuses to saves or getting mooks or a champion. (Nice touch with the champion, by the way. Euphemia+Suzaku was also something I had in mind with the reverse cohort, which puts me mind again of making a knightmare).

Royal champion; The maximum level of the champion per RtR pick seems disproportionate and the level fluctuations in its level advantage feels awkward. Here's a chart of its level advantage assuming it is progressed as soon as possible.
(click to show/hide)
If stabilizes at level 9, for a cost of 3 RtR picks to keep pace at a level advantage for the champion of +2/+2/+1...  but is all over the place before that and the costs to maintain are not balanced (you must spend all your RtR II picks on it but only one RtR III).
It would normally require a maximum champion level of 8 for the second RtR to stabilize the lot to a sequence of +2/+2/+1. For the early levels, to maintain an advancement cost of 3 picks per RtR level, you could limit the number of picks of Royal Champion picks to your maximum PP class level. That would make it +2/+2/+2/+1 for the first four levels, which is all good.
If you'd prefer to stabilize a +2 advantage for as long as possible, you can have each RtR level option grant a +1 advantage, then a +2 advantage with a second pick until X level, at which point it would need the picks of the next RtR level to advance further. It would reduce the advancement costs to 2 picks per RtR level, however, unless the +1 advantage costs 1 pick and +2 advantage costs an extra 2 picks.

I've just read the new Mercy; there is a way for mechas to recover from them but nothing for non-mechas. All movements permanently dropping to 5 feet is pretty nasty, among other things. (though in that case it may be the result of being maimed and would require a regeneration effect to restore the crippled legs)

New connections; to be sure, is it the intent that only picks of High Connections increase the amount of weapon/s.weapon/accessory that can be distributed, and the other connection abilities merely increase the arsenal level accessible, or are they also supposed to increase the amount of picks? As is the higher connection abilities do not affect the amount of arsenal stuff available to be distributed.
Also:
Quote
...delivered and installed on mechas of your choice anywhere, divided as you see fit, including removing previous arsenal to make space.
Is that meant to say that those arsenal options are installed without taking arsenal space/hardpoint? The part about removing previous arsenal to make space could either indicate that they still take space/hardpoint as it could refer to removing a previous use of High Connections to install them again. If they are extras then limiting it to a number per picks of High Connection specifically makes sense, also considering he princess' own reduced arsenal. Seems to be a PP channeled ability because it requires being close to her though not sure if being within the radius is required when it is applied to her own Royal Mecha.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 02:36:43 AM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #526: November 22, 2016, 08:07:48 AM »
Thanks for the reply.

Quote
Quote
The arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.
A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.
Ah, so a multiclass pilot is supposed to combined the modifier on the final mecha instead of its super component. The entries gave me the impression that a multiclass divine/arcane/peace-p applied their reduction only to the super robot stats, handled separately from the stats added to the mecha from Real Pilot, Ship captain and so on.
(Ship Captain 18/Peace Princess 2 would then have a strong n' tough ship that isn't as strong as a full Ship Captain 20 but would have access to a few weaker PP abilities instead of having the entire 18 level of battleship reduced for them) Same with casting; the penalties and gains being in proportion for each side.
But all right.

Apologies if the question was asked before, but can a casting Pilot/PP channel spells/PP abilities through a full-stats mecha using Amplifier upgrades? Probably one amplifier per spell/ability.
Also, it was probably intended but many PP abilities do not have to be channeled as they either affect her directly or do not have to be used, such as bonuses to saves or getting mooks or a champion.
Channeler won't apply to that kind of stuff, but yes several Peace Princess abilities don't need to actually be channeled so you could have an easier time multiclassing (or you could be an Arcane/Divine Pilot focused on self-buffs).

(Nice touch with the champion, by the way. Euphemia+Suzaku was also something I had in mind with the reverse cohort, which puts me mind again of making a knightmare).

Royal champion; The maximum level of the champion per RtR pick seems disproportionate and the level fluctuations in its level advantage feels awkward. Here's a chart of its level advantage assuming it is progressed as soon as possible.
(click to show/hide)
If stabilizes at level 9, for a cost of 3 RtR picks to keep pace at a level advantage for the champion of +2/+2/+1...  but is all over the place before that and the costs to maintain are not balanced (you must spend all your RtR II picks on it but only one RtR III).
It would normally require a maximum champion level of 8 for the second RtR to stabilize the lot to a sequence of +2/+2/+1. For the early levels, to maintain an advancement cost of 3 picks per RtR level, you could limit the number of picks of Royal Champion picks to your maximum PP class level. That would make it +2/+2/+2/+1 for the first four levels, which is all good.
If you'd prefer to stabilize a +2 advantage for as long as possible, you can have each RtR level option grant a +1 advantage, then a +2 advantage with a second pick until X level, at which point it would need the picks of the next RtR level to advance further. It would reduce the advancement costs to 2 picks per RtR level, however, unless the +1 advantage costs 1 pick and +2 advantage costs an extra 2 picks.
Actually I messed up the caps.

Also every level now grants Rags to Royalty, spread up the spirits and bonus feats.

Now I just need to add more abilities to pick.

I've just read the new Mercy; there is a way for mechas to recover from them but nothing for non-mechas. All movements permanently dropping to 5 feet is pretty nasty, among other things. (though in that case it may be the result of being maimed and would require a regeneration effect to restore the crippled legs)
Added auto-heal to non-mechas. Not that mercyful to leave them crippled until expensive treatment is applied.

New connections; to be sure, is it the intent that only picks of High Connections increase the amount of weapon/s.weapon/accessory that can be distributed, and the other connection abilities merely increase the arsenal level accessible, or are they also supposed to increase the amount of picks? As is the higher connection abilities do not affect the amount of arsenal stuff available to be distributed.
Higher connections only allow you to requisition fancier stuff.

Also:
Quote
...delivered and installed on mechas of your choice anywhere, divided as you see fit, including removing previous arsenal to make space.
Is that meant to say that those arsenal options are installed without taking arsenal space/hardpoint? The part about removing previous arsenal to make space could either indicate that they still take space/hardpoint as it could refer to removing a previous use of High Connections to install them again. If they are extras then limiting it to a number per picks of High Connection specifically makes sense, also considering he princess' own reduced arsenal. Seems to be a PP channeled ability because it requires being close to her though not sure if being within the radius is required when it is applied to her own Royal Mecha.
No, you can't go over limits, just that you can unequip peasant arsenal stuff to make space for the new royal arsenal. Can't fill a cup with expensive wine if it's already filled with cheap beer.

Self arsenal still demands a non-null radius value.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #527: November 23, 2016, 01:06:22 AM »
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Added auto-heal to non-mechas. Not that mercyful to leave them crippled until expensive treatment is applied.
Sounds good. Are those meant to be a status effect that can simply be removed by any of the numerous options that cancel a negative effect? Considering the amount of options to clear ill effects away and that mercy's negative effects do not stack until the target heals, limiting it to 1 effect per round maximum.
Not sure if the same applies to the Saint's version of Mercy since many of those ill-effect cancelers can be used even if you cannot take any action.

Quote
No, you can't go over limits, just that you can unequip peasant arsenal stuff to make space for the new royal arsenal. Can't fill a cup with expensive wine if it's already filled with cheap beer.
Self arsenal still demands a non-null radius value.
Might want to clarify that the ability only adds the arsenal level options to the arsenal available for that mecha's selections since as is it simply adds to them by having them installed. As I said, the part about replacing arsenal in the process could seem to refer to the previous use of the same ability.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 01:08:57 AM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #528: November 30, 2016, 11:10:14 PM »
Mercy's effects have limite duration so yes you can patch them up. However ejecting/mecha destroyed would render it a moot point.

Clarified connections.

Also Added Peace princess's capstone and added/changed some of the abilities.

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #529: December 01, 2016, 04:27:37 AM »
All right.
I wanted to note that right now it has become even easier to get support from mecha passengers.
You could get plenty of level 1 minions as passengers that grant extreme benefits to the pilot/mecha.
For example, there are now arsenal options that recover stuff for other mechas; a level 1 android with the arsenal accessory feat could have one equipped and use it from within a mecha to restore it.

A level 1 support staff minion or two could similarly spam recovery options such as Recharge to keep a mecha at max energy forever.

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #530: December 01, 2016, 04:38:50 AM »
Well, you would need a renewable source of androids since technically they can only change the feat arsenal at level up, so limited number of cartridge/repair kit uses. But pretty abuseable yes.

Limited the Android racial feat to non-consumables and also clarified that the Support Staff can only use their specialization abilities while piloting their Mobile Worker, thanks.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #531: December 01, 2016, 11:10:01 AM »
Hi5!
That reminds me now that, while I do not know all the things you've crossed the SRW setting homebrews with, there's the Animated Object that gets a similar arsenal access. Maybe not up date with the Energy Arsenal stuff though.
There's also the moon vanguard minions that can pull the arsenal support trick since they can use it with their nanoarmor within the mecha. If they do not work while within a mecha, you can destroy their nanoarmor since they still keep their arsenal stuff.

An arsenal option I'm considering: Arsenal weapons of an arsenal level lower than your maximum can be taken and made twin-linked. But if that weapon has the defensive special weapon quality, such as the G-Revolver (II), is it intended to do the twin attacks as an immediate action or is it only doing one? Because as per the description of Twin-Linked, the twin attack applies in specific cases (attack with a standard action or attacks with a fullattack) and a Defensive attack isn't one of them.

Oh, would the Tactical feat of the Martial Machine be essentially the same as the one for Gun Maniac?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:19:03 PM by Anomander »

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #532: December 13, 2016, 02:45:18 PM »
Oslecamo, the thread says you've updated battleships today, but I can't see what's changed. Would it be too much trouble to ask for a patch log whenever you change things? That'd be awesome if you'd be willing to do it!

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #533: December 13, 2016, 09:19:08 PM »
Hi5!
That reminds me now that, while I do not know all the things you've crossed the SRW setting homebrews with, there's the Animated Object that gets a similar arsenal access. Maybe not up date with the Energy Arsenal stuff though.
There's also the moon vanguard minions that can pull the arsenal support trick since they can use it with their nanoarmor within the mecha. If they do not work while within a mecha, you can destroy their nanoarmor since they still keep their arsenal stuff.
Added rule for that in Arsenal, such options can not be used in a mecha you're inside of.

An arsenal option I'm considering: Arsenal weapons of an arsenal level lower than your maximum can be taken and made twin-linked. But if that weapon has the defensive special weapon quality, such as the G-Revolver (II), is it intended to do the twin attacks as an immediate action or is it only doing one? Because as per the description of Twin-Linked, the twin attack applies in specific cases (attack with a standard action or attacks with a fullattack) and a Defensive attack isn't one of them.
Added clause for that as well.

Oh, would the Tactical feat of the Martial Machine be essentially the same as the one for Gun Maniac?
Well, it would have the usual "pick from 3/4 feats, plus "something synergy with 3 weapon tags", but still thinking about others. Something able to twin-link a pair of melee weapons while on foot plus make a weapon count as Heavy for boosted damage and make your unarmed strikes count as mecha-scale.

But first I want to flesh out more the Support Staff. Also need more Arsenal Missiles. Been toying with an idea for a whole school on that actually, "Macross Missile Massacre".

Oslecamo, the thread says you've updated battleships today, but I can't see what's changed. Would it be too much trouble to ask for a patch log whenever you change things? That'd be awesome if you'd be willing to do it!
Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :P

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #534: December 31, 2016, 02:59:50 PM »
The Born to Fight feat has the passive effect of allowing a pilot to affect mechas with nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) even if you're on foot and smaller than them.
Would it not make sense for non-pilots to have access to a feat that grants that ability as well? Settings introducing new elements often also give options to fight those new elements without being a part of it. So a warrior could be an expert at taking down those metal colossi without being a pilot, even if they technically count as having a CR of +2 against him.

Otherwise, maybe a feat could allow non-pilots to qualify has having a pilot class for the purpose of qualifying for feats that do not require a mecha.
Such as the Cyber Newtype/Innovade/Coordinator feats, maybe, since they do not require being a pilot, and could then get Born to Fight if only for that passive effect.

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #535: December 31, 2016, 08:33:30 PM »
Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :P
A change log would be nice, but cross-indexing or completing information would be better.

Like you can put the actual weapon properties in the Arsenal Thread instead of burying in one spoiler of several in another thread. You could actually put text into Arcane/Divine Pilot saying they gain Arsenal like a Super Pilot as you've had to answer in here, and then using parenthesis provide a short note of access at level 4 and upgrades once per three levels after that. One sentence can prevent a tab full of explosions and digging into this thread (and phantasy star's) for answers.
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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #536: December 31, 2016, 09:00:34 PM »
I think it could have been better phrased but yeah: the cross-referencing is overkill here. Super robots and real robots are now in the same thread as their parent class but common terms and features are regularly in threads without other indications (you have a 50/50 chance of working out where weapon properties are for one)
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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #537: January 02, 2017, 10:51:57 AM »
The Born to Fight feat has the passive effect of allowing a pilot to affect mechas with nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) even if you're on foot and smaller than them.
Would it not make sense for non-pilots to have access to a feat that grants that ability as well? Settings introducing new elements often also give options to fight those new elements without being a part of it.
 So a warrior could be an expert at taking down those metal colossi without being a pilot, even if they technically count as having a CR of +2 against him.
Clearly I missed the anti-psionic feat on the psionics splatbooks and the anti-maneuver feat in Tome of Battle. I think Libris Mortis did have anti-undead feats you could take as a warm meatbag, but they kinda sucked and you were much better off becoming an undead yourself.

Otherwise, maybe a feat could allow non-pilots to qualify has having a pilot class for the purpose of qualifying for feats that do not require a mecha.
Such as the Cyber Newtype/Innovade/Coordinator feats, maybe, since they do not require being a pilot, and could then get Born to Fight if only for that passive effect.

One of the main points of this project is a setting where everybody is a pilot of some sort and you defeat mechas by having your own mechas, and fighting on foot is a last ditch effort or risky gambit, not your standard strategy. Even if a group wanted to take an already party of non-pilots and drop them on this setting, my recommendation would be for the party to run into some empty mechas they could commandeer.



Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :P
A change log would be nice, but cross-indexing or completing information would be better.

Like you can put the actual weapon properties in the Arsenal Thread instead of burying in one spoiler of several in another thread. You could actually put text into Arcane/Divine Pilot saying they gain Arsenal like a Super Pilot as you've had to answer in here, and then using parenthesis provide a short note of access at level 4 and upgrades once per three levels after that. One sentence can prevent a tab full of explosions and digging into this thread (and phantasy star's) for answers.

Clarified the Arcane and Divine pilot's arsenal access, copied keywords to Arsenal, now I'll have to update it twice whenever I want to change something, yay!

Well anyway with the new year more positive energy and let's see if I can work on my backlog. With Soro having PMd me his promised fluff I've got to do my side as well and finally compile my stuff as well.

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #538: January 03, 2017, 10:03:34 PM »
Well anyway with the new year more positive energy and let's see if I can work on my backlog. With Soro having PMd me his promised fluff I've got to do my side as well and finally compile my stuff as well.
To be fair it took me three months giving you plenty of time to catch up :p

I also have spare notes floating around to partially extend on the rest of the family that could be compiled if you'll really use the stuff. I crank out flavor as a form of procrastination. Plus I was so up for adding the 5th dimension into things be generally you have to sit around explaining what the first four are in D&D thanks to everything thinking time travel and misunderstood tesseracts.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #539: January 14, 2017, 05:11:27 AM »
For Super Robots that don't have Hardpoints, can anything actually be put into their default Arsenal space of 4? Or are Hardpoints exclusively for Accessories and general Arsenal space can be filled with combat weapons and such without spending Hardpoints?

Are you not allowed to have multiple Great One upgrades on a Super Robot?

I know we talked about it in the PS game but the Fighter transformation affects fly speed how? Am I increasing my base by 150% it's normal value or is my base becoming 150% of itself? I'm still lost here.

100 mu fly becomes 250 mu?
or
100 mu fly becomes 150 mu?

If you have multiple built-in weapons can you attack with all of them in the same round?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 06:40:22 AM by ketaro »