Author Topic: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)  (Read 4247 times)

Offline Prime32

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The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Topic Start: November 06, 2011, 08:59:02 AM »
The changeling wizard substitution levels from Races of Eberron let you shift your familiar between all its possible forms. There was talk about the cheesiness of combining this with Improved Familiar. However, you can go further.

Paladin 5/Wizard 5

High One Warrior-Wizard racial substitution level 5 (Champions of Valour Web Enhancement) lets you treat your special mount as a familiar. While it opens up more options, this isn't the trick. According to the DMG, a paladin with the Leadership feat may treat a cohort as his special mount for +2 LA.

That's right, your familiar can now turn into any character four levels below you at will. You can even turn it into another wizard and have it share spellbooks with you (though that would be a waste, since it has any spell you want, ready to cast).

Offline Prime32

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #1: November 06, 2011, 09:00:18 AM »
Since we're stretching into the realm of fuzzy TO

Wizard 5*/Paladin 2/Knight of the Blue Moon 1**/Beastmaster 2/Halfling Outrider 10
*high one warrior wizard AND spontaneous divination ACFs (required for KotBM)
**City of Splendors: Waterdeep - grants a mount and lets you stack wizard levels if you don't have a familiar

feats: racial emulation, natural bond, whatever else is needed for prereqs

I don't think this works with the cohort/mount idea, but whatever.

You have a mighty morphing mount 18/animal 18/familiar 5, which gives you: +20 HD, +15 NA, +10 Str, +6 Dex, Int 9


Offline The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #2: November 06, 2011, 06:43:02 PM »
Doesn't the sub level specify normal familiars?

Offline Prime32

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #3: November 06, 2011, 07:06:22 PM »
Not quite.
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.

Offline Shining Phoenix

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #4: November 06, 2011, 07:38:47 PM »
So, using your familiar's full-round action, you can trade one character whose level is that of a normal cohort's cohort for another one?

What benefits does the little guy get for being your familiar and your special mount? All of the normal ones for being a familiar and a paladin's mount?
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Online Maat Mons

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #5: November 06, 2011, 10:03:20 PM »
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard? 

Offline Fadier

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #6: November 06, 2011, 11:03:50 PM »
As Maat Mons has said, I don't think this works.
Both the High One Warrior-Wizard subistution and the Changeling Racial Subistution both swap out the 5th level bonus feat.
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Offline Shining Phoenix

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #7: November 07, 2011, 07:19:20 AM »
As Maat Mons has said, I don't think this works.
Both the High One Warrior-Wizard subistution and the Changeling Racial Subistution both swap out the 5th level bonus feat.
What if you took your 5th level of wizard at an odd numbered level? Then you'd have two bonus feats to trade!  :P
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Offline The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #8: November 07, 2011, 09:18:22 AM »
Not quite.
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".

Offline weenog

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #9: November 07, 2011, 09:53:28 AM »
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.

Emphasis mine.

To me, the use of the phrase "the wizard" rather than "a wizard" or "any wizard" suggests that the familiar changes to anything that its own master could have, which varies from individual to individual based on feats taken, unusual prestige class features, possibly caster level and/or BAB, alignment in some cases, maybe other factors.

Trading the same ability away twice doesn't seem kosher at all, though.  Once you've sacrificed it the first time you no longer have it to trade for more.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:55:23 AM by weenog »
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Offline Prime32

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #10: November 07, 2011, 09:56:03 AM »
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard?
How has this thread gone so long without anyone noticing that? :(

Any other way to combine your familiar with something else? Familiar/animal companion would work.
EDIT: Arcane hierophant does not work, since it just makes your animal companion more like a familiar.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 10:02:33 AM by Prime32 »

Offline weenog

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #11: November 07, 2011, 10:02:00 AM »
I'm not as familiar with the haunt shift rules as I probably should be.  Anything interesting happen to the item when a haunting presence's form changes?  Might be some potential with a stitched flesh familiar if so.
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Offline Prime32

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #12: November 07, 2011, 10:04:34 AM »
I suppose a god could abuse this to hell with its ability to designate anything as its familiar, but by that point... you're a freaking god.

Offline Halinn

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #13: November 07, 2011, 10:44:52 AM »
Would it be possible as an illithid savant? Just eat two delicious wizard-brains.

Offline Fadier

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #14: November 07, 2011, 12:13:00 PM »
Anything is possible with Illithid Savant. It's pun pun the class. Just a lot more downtime needed.
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Offline DocWarlock

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #15: November 13, 2011, 05:44:41 PM »
Not quite.
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".

This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.

Offline EjoThims

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #16: November 14, 2011, 05:45:25 PM »
Not quite.
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".

This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.

Why? If he can already have a Dragon as a familiar?

Offline Amechra

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #17: November 17, 2011, 09:08:47 AM »
(Sorcerer Simple Variant/Morphic Familiar)Wizard 5/Cleric 3/Prestige Paladin 1/Arcane Hierophant X

Get your hands on Favored Enemy and Track, and take Devoted Tracker.

Your Familiar is now an Animal Companion and a Special Mount as well. Sure, they aren't GOOD, but it's something to work with.
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Offline Twilightwyrm

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #18: December 09, 2011, 03:49:50 AM »
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard?

Yeah, I was going to say, that has to be breaking some barrier on that kind of shenanigans.
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Online skydragonknight

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Re: The Ultra-Shifter (3.5)
« Reply #19: December 27, 2011, 07:27:32 AM »
Not quite.
Quote from: Races of Eberron
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".

This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.

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